Expected Accuracy from a .38//357 Lever Gun

C

ckpj99

New member
Hey folks, so I want to investigate .38/.357 lever guns. What type of accuracy can I expect from these. I can't imagine a 158 grain lead slug having very good ballistic properties. I'm not looking for a sniper rifle, but 1-2 MOA would make me very excited.

Let me know what your experience is with these guns.
 
I had a Marlin made Marlin in 357 a couple of years ago, a buddy had a Winchester and two Rossi's in 357. We spent a lot of time developing loads for these guns using both cast and jacketed bullets. The best we could get out of any of them was around 2MOA with five shots at 100yds. That's really not too bad for a lever gun and using bullets with low BC. We've both been shooting for over 50 years and are/were top competitive shooters. I'd say that's about what you should expect if you do everything right. Don't listen to anyone who shoots three shots one time and got a one inch group. Statistically, it won't do it repeatedly (unless he's another internet champion shooter). You know, if it's on the internet it must be true!
 
I had a Marlin years ago before I started reloading and the best I could do with factory ammo was a paper plate at 100 yards and it dropped quickly after that. I could do just about as good with my 6" revolver. Ending up trading it for a mini14 if that tells you anything.


Doug
 
Lever guns in pistol calibers can be quite accurate/potent. A buddy of mine just picked up a Rossi 92 in 45 colt. While it's not going to win any awards for the notchy action, I was able to put 5 rounds in about 3" at 100yds with his iron sights (with lyman style tang peep sight). I suspect it would benefit from hand loads. He's ordering the dies/supplies and I'll help him come up with a few different loads to try. He's not going to be winning any benchrest competitions with it for sure, but it's plenty accurate for the occasional deer.

Best,
 
Thanks for the tips, folks. To me, there's a big difference between a 2 MOA gun and a 4 MOA gun. 2 MOA is great, 3 is fine, 4 is not really fun to shoot at 100 yards anymore. I'll have to keep doing research.
 
I also have a 45 colt lever gun and it does much better. I am now using hand loads on the high end of the scale for deer. First time I took it to the 50yard indoor range I could put them all in one ragged hole. If you have a choice I would go with the 45colt over the 38/357.

Doug
 
My trapper in .357 mag is definitely not a 2moa gun. A least not in my hands. But I really didn't expect the 16 inch barrel to do that either.

I have drooled over the .44mag and .45lc rossi 92's with the 24 inch octagonal barrel. They shoot really well.
 
I have the rossi in 45lc and one in 38/357... love them both...
I am working up loads for them both... the 45LC has been easier thus far to pull groups in... its putting clover leafs at 50 yds( big 45 caliber pedals..lol) if I do my part... the 38/357...not there yet...I tried the other day with some 38's my pistol likes for plinking... I could not find a 9 inch plate at 100yds..lol...but I loaded some more with a diff recipe and snap...that dude was clover leaves at about35-40yds...so there is promise for both guns if load development continues....

hope this info helps.....

ps....I have shot a lot of guns over the last few years... NONE are as much fun or appealing to me as these 2 levers.... can't explain it......
I've got a horse but I don't care to get on it... but if I did ride...man that gun and me and some chaps and I'd be set...:)
 
I know Winchester has rereleased the 73 and I read in article in American Rifleman that said they were getting around 3" groups with various ammunition. Given that this is a modernly produced rifle with modern ammunition, I would be inclined to agree with Snyper in post#2 in that 2-4" is a reasonable expectation. (I was personally eyeballing one of those 73's and had the same question)
 
I have several pistol ammo leverguns. I have a 32 mag, 357 mag and a 44 mag all marlins and use to own a rossi 357 mag. I haven't shot the 32 much at all so won't comment. But I get much better accuracy from my marlin 357 than from the 44 mag.

The 44 mag will shoot 2" groups at 75 yards but for some reason opens to 4"+ groups at 100. My 357s, marlin and rossi will both shoot 3" 100 yard groups and sometimes a little smaller. I haven't shot much lead through the marlin at that range but at around 50-60 yards it does well. The rossi I had never would shoot lead bullets. And I tried hard. At 30 yards they were starting to tip. At 100 they were hitting sideways. They would be in a 6" group though.

But remember. A 4" group is landing within 2" of your intended point of impact. That will work for deer hunting at that range.

I started to sell the 44 mag but after I thought about it it is still a very useful round if kept to 80 yards or less. It it makes a heck of a house or truck gun with the right bullets.
 
Marlin

I've had a Marlin 1894 in .357 for I reckon over 30 years now, purchased right before they put the push button safety on them. It was my favorite utility rifle for a long time, and still would be if I could manage the peep sights on the short barrel like I used to, but alas I do not. I could resolve that with a tidy low power scope, but I cannot as yet make myself scope the little lever carbine.

Its strong points were that it was portable in the extreme, had a modicum of power for its size, could be loaded and shot for next to nothing w/ a near endless supply of brass. I ran all manner of loads through it, from .38 WC (single loaded) up through 158 gr mags. Probably shot more .38 +P+/110 JHP through it than anything, and killed a bunch of groundhogs using that stuff. I also shot .357/158 LSWC's at about 1000 fps or so as a GP woods roaming load, but dismissed that practice as it required a rezero for more potent loads if I intended to hunt deer w/ the little lever. Never have shot a deer with it though. Also had it zeroed for .357/125 JHP for a while, and that load, probably zipping along near 2400 fps + was absolutely explosive on ferals and chucks.

With all that, I never really shot for group at 100 yds. Typically, I'd put up a pie plate at 100, shoot until the bullet strikes got centered on the plate, and call it good. If I had to say, I'd reckon the carbine plunked most every thing into clusters about half the size of the plate. Call it 4MOA then.

A good mod is to put peeps on the rifle, which greatly improves sight radius and should do same with obtainable accuracy.
 
I have a .357 Marlin. I reload and always spend a lot of time on load development. It currently wears a Lyman peep but I put a 12X scope on it to work up loads. With 158 gr. jacketed Noslers I was getting 2 inches at 100 from the bench. Cast was never that good, around 4 inches. With the peep, I am happy to put 5 on a Post-It note at 100. They are supposed to shoot cast bullets well but I was never able to get that good with them.
 
With 125 fr JHPs hand loads with 2400 at about 2000 fps I get about 2" groups with my 1894 Marlin.

I've tried factory lead cast in 357 but I got some bad gas cutting which fouled the crap out of the barrel and the groups were measured in feet, not inches. Turns out a hunk of spinning magma isn't terribly accurate.

There have been people who have gotten their lever 357s down to sub moa by tuning the extractor to hold the brass the same way every time while in the chamber and then cleaning up the muzzle. This has been on my to do list for a while. For now I have a good time with 2 moa. If I miss it's probably my fault, not the rifle's. I mostly shoot it off hand anyway.
 
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Lever guns in general can be very accurate and ones in .357 are no different. MOA isn't out of the question. The main issues I've had with em (lever guns that is) is when you get one that won't do what you want they can be very hard to fix unlike bolt actions. Their two piece stocks and tube mags make them a bit tricky.
 
At 100 yards I can put all my shots (with bullets my gun likes) in about 2.5 inches

at 200 yards it opens up a lot. I will not shoot a deer any farther than 125 yards with my 357 magnum trapper.
 
I own a pre safety Marlin 1894 .357 carbine. It is a micro groove barrel. I have never mounted a scope but with a handloaded 158 Hornady XTP it would keep 5 shots inside a 25 cent piece at 50 yds. Not just any load but that one would do it repeatedly.
 
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