Ex-Felons and 'non-firearm' weapons; definition of firearm.

F

FirstFreedom

Moderator
I looked once at the FEDERAL definition of firearms, and my recollection was that it was worded in such a way as to exclude muzzleloader and airguns. But does anyone know the *real deal* as to whether convicted felons can legally enjoy and hunt with BP equivalent muzzleloaders, airguns, potato guns, cannons, etc.? Does it depend solely on federal law; or does it vary state by state, as for each state's definition of what a 'firearm' is? Because most state and local definitions of 'firearm' are worded in such as way that they DO include airguns & muzzleloaders, IINM. I've heard rumors that muzzleloaders are fine. I've heard rumors that muzzleloaders are off-limits. And I've heard rumors that percussion cap or flintlock muzzleloaders are ok, but inlines are not. And no one seems to even have an opinion on airguns. Anyone researched it; is it clear-cut or a gray area? I'm not a felon, but I have met a few people who are, from something stupid they did in their younger years, but they are sometimes interested in hunting. And if it's the case that muzzleloaders are off-limits but airguns are ok, then this is an important fact, given that today there are some seriously powerful PCP airguns such as Barnes that can easily take medium and large game. Thanks.
 
They can in Iowa

A felon in Iowa, can apply to have thier gun rights reinstated.! Thats right, felons with guns, legally. I dont believe they are eligable if it was a violent crime, such as domestic abuse, armed robbery, or aggrevated assault. Perty much any convicted drug dealer is good though!: Its sad that a felon can get a gun in Iowa, but cross the river into Illinois. An honest citizen has to have a foid card to buy ammo, and the gestapo will take your high cap mags..:eek:
 
FF, aren't you a lawyer?


Call the DA's office, and ask what the enforceable statute is and whether it is state or federal.



I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of those things where it is a "firearm" when most convenient to the government, though.
 
There are both Federal and State laws governing felons and firearms.
You have to obey both sets of laws.
Check your state laws.
 
Here's the federal law http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/18/parts/i/chapters/44/sections/section_922.html

http://www.hwylaw.com/CM/Articles/Articles88.asp This article is pretty nice too . It talks about one state specifically but it's good general knowledge.

One thing I've always wondered if what if you get convicted of a felony in one state where if you had comitted the same act in another state it's a misdemenor. For example: Get caught in NYC with a handgun and no permit it's a felony. Get caught in Atlanta with one and it's a misdemenor (and generally they won't charge you if you weren't DOING anything wrong when you got caught with it you'll just be asked to leave/put it away/lock it up in your car ect.)
 
Large game with an airgun?

Someone please post a picture of the monster buck they took with their Barnes airgun. Please! I have to see this!:rolleyes:
 
Savage, you know nothing of what you attempt to ridicule with your rolling eyes - read up:

Deer, boar, ram, and bison taken with airguns in first link...

http://www.glbarnes.com/Your_choice_huntpics.html
http://www.airguns.net/air_boar.html
http://www.glbarnes.com/boar04.html
http://www.glbarnes.com/Boar_hunt03.html
http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/09/so-you-dont-like-airguns.html
http://www.beeman.com/history.htm
http://www.dto.com/shooting/article.jsp?articleid=771
http://www.glbarnes.com/tundra.html
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=516

Yes I'm a lawyer but not in that area, and I'm too lazy to research, so thought I'd ask if anyone had already done the work.
 
First Freedom...

I never said it couldn't be done. You could possibly kill a bear with a slingshot if you could hit it in the eye, but what if you miss. I will say that it is about the stupidest thing in the world. Your last link shows a .45 caliber rifle with a muzzle velocity of 730. This is well over 100 feet slower than even your slowest .45ACP factory loading.

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/09/are-those-advertised-big-bore.html

The man on this site tested the Big Bore 909. The maximum energy he measured during his test was 190 foot-pounds. This is about half the energy of an average 9mm factory loading. Would you hunt wild boar or deer with a 1/2 powered 9mm?
 
I give First Freedom...

Please allow me to invite you to Kodiak Island. We can hunt some Kodiak Brown Bear with my GAMO Hunter 440 (.177 at 1000fps). I'll bet we just clean up on em. Hell, if they line up in a row we can just kill them em all with one shot!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
So which one of those dead animal pictures do you think is a forgery? The one of the monster buck which you requested and was provided, the bison, or some other ones?

That Big Bore 909, though powerful, is a veritable joke compared to some of the Barnes rifles. Those guys are using 300-600 gr ammo in .45, .56, and .58, not 185 or 230 grainers like a .45 acp. The whole point it, it can be done, and done quite easily & well, and this fact is extremely important for those who love hunting but may be banned from owning firearms due to being a felon, for one stupid mistake they made when they were young, or being snagged with half again as much pot as what the local authorities deem 'personal use', in this war on some drugs, which is ongoing.

Look at this link again, which I provided above.

http://www.glbarnes.com/tundra.html

That's Five Hundred foot pounds of energy. Plenty for large thin-skinned game like deer and elk, provided you have a close shot - and no you do not need an eye shot to do it - vitals are just fine. And a Bison is the heaviest land mammal in North America, dead right there, by an airgun. Clearly, you've been made out to be a fool by the ignorance of your posts - this might have been overlooked had you not combined your ignorance with arrogance and attempted ridicule as well. And you are now trying to set up straw men and backtrack - it won't work. But go ahead, keep diggin' that hole. Now if, OTOH, you'd like to go back and edit your ignorance and taunts, I will edit my factual reply accordingly, and we can get back on track to the original topic.
 
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Are you kidding?

Are you a little kid or something? What is your problem? Grow up! My point was, there are better tools for the job. One guy in a few million has a single shot airgun that shoots a big enough projectile to kill large game. So what? I'll stick to my .308. If your "nice guy" felon wants to hunt then I say tough luck. For you I will explain it as easily as possible! There are these things in today's society called laws. If you break these laws then there are these things called consequences that you must deal with. A felon has given up there right to own a weapon or firearm. They did this knowingly. It is there fault. These powerful airguns that you speak of, which I do except that I was wrong about, are seemingly just as dangerous as many other firearms and therefore they have no right to own those either. Responsibility comes hand in hand with any weapon or firearm. A felon has effectively proved that they cannot handle responsibility in any way shape or form. To me, that means no guns for them. Too bad, so sad.:( Just my opinion. Once again, I will admit, I WAS WRONG about the airguns. I have learned something today which is never a bad thing. Thank you, at least, for that.
 
I have no problem with a non-violent felon, after he has proved that he has been rehabilitated, haveing total restoration of his rights. The court took them away and has the power to restore them.
 
but cross the river into Illinois. An honest citizen has to have a foid card to buy ammo, and the gestapo will take your high cap mags..
Click to expand...

Uhmm you might want to double chceck your reference on the underlined section of the above.

Illinois has no law against magazines regardless of how many rounds they hold.

Cook County does but that is 1 county out of about 100. Cook Counties ban is unusual in that magazines that hold more than 12 rounds are illegal.

Sigh... unfortunetly you are correct about the FOID card but as annoying as that is I would rather have the FOID felgercarb (remember the original Battlestar Galactica :) ) than a magazine/fifty cal/"Assult weapon" (:barf: ) ban.

NukemJim
 
My point was, there are better tools for the job. One guy in a few million has a single shot airgun that shoots a big enough projectile to kill large game. So what? I'll stick to my .308.
Click to expand...

Jeebus O' Peebus, man - look at the subject of the thread - felons can't have .308s.

And I also didn't ask about your opinion on felons - I asked if anyone knew the definition of firearms, as it applies to felons being prohibited from possessing firearms. But since you interjected without having an answer, and brought up the issue that you did not know about the power of some of the PCP airguns, I tried to enlighten you, and did. But frankly, I don't care what you think about felons - make up your own thread to talk about that.
 
Once again, I was wrong.

I was off topic. At that time we were talking about airguns and I was just saying that I will stick with my .308 as opposed to a single shot air rifle. Anyways, I could not find a concrete answer on you forum topic. I did see however that if still considered a felon that they are limited to more than just firearms. One site I visited included electric weapons and even ammo. As far as the gun part of it it simply said firearms, which Webster defines as "a weapon from which a shot is discharged by gunpowder". This still doesn't answer your question though. The federal government can more than likely come up with whatever definition they choose.
 
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