Entry level varmint rifle in .223 ?

A

ATeaM

New member
A local shop has a deal on a Howa 1500 in .223 for $379, practically speaking the gun suits all my needs, unfortunately, it's butt ugly :p. I know, I know...a rifle is a tool, not a toy. Unfortunately it's not just the aesthetic qualities. I can deal without a deep polished blue or hand rubbed wood. What I cannot deal with is having the "tactical wannabe" label. I'm one of those guys who can't stand the over "tactilization" of all things gun. I respect there purposes but I'm not buying this rifle to pretend to be soldier boy, I just want an accurate paper puncher. I'd also like some sights. Anyways, my other option is spending a hundred or so more on a Remington VLS in the same caliber. The 26 inch barrel on the VLS does seem like overkill for the chosen caliber though. So, should I sacrifice the practicality of the Howa for something more expensive and aesthetically pleasing ? Or am I being a snob and should base my decision on practicality, not emotion ? What else is out there I should be looking at ($450 +tax is my limit) ?
 
Savage makes a decent rifle and you might be able to find a remington classic in .223. I think it was the last rifle in that line maybe for 2000 or 2001 I cannot remember. I had a classic in .17 and it was a nice looking little rifle.
 
AteaM, I can relate! I'd definitely spend a hundred bucks more to get something more aesthetically pleasing...afterall, part of the pleasure of owning firearms is looking at them. In fact, I'd spend TWO hundred bucks more for a better looking rifle, not to mention something made in the US of A. I can't think of anything cheesier than a wannabe rifle (as in "made in Japan") except a wannabe "tactical" rifle! I think you'd regret buying such a piece of crap. :barf:

Stick with Remington, Winchester, or Ruger and you'll not regret how you spent your hard-earned bucks (uhh...they are hard-earned funds, right? ;) ).

-RR-
 
Entry leve varmint rifle in .223

I would have to disagree that japanese made firearms are junk. I thought that kind of thinking went out of style 25 or 30 years ago. I have several gun smith friends who have worked on firearms for many years. Both collect Japanese made brownings because they consider the workmanship superior to Belgium made Brownings. Yes , I know that collectors pay more for Belgium brownings but collectors have proven their ignorance about firearms many times in the past to me. They often pay big bucks for pistols and rifles of inferior workmanship for only the reason that they are scarce or no longer being made. One really good laugh is the big bucks paid for pre-64 model 70 winchesters. I own four of them and the workmanship in some of them is actually many times worse than some of the newer ones being made today.
Getting back to your question. People seldom wear out a .223 caliber rifle. They are usually good for at least 10,000 rounds so why not consider buying a nice used rifle. You might be able to pick up a deluxe model of a name brand rifle for less money then what you would pay for an economy grade new rifle. Then if you are really smart you would spend the money saved on an expensive first rate scope like a Leupold. The big mistake new shooters make is that they spend all their money on the rifle first and then have little left over so they then purchase a cheap scope. They would actually be better off buying the used rifle and a new expensive scope. An old rifle can always be fixed but a cheap scope is money lost and a rifle that does not shoot as accurately as it could. W.R.
 
I bought a Savage 12 FV in .223 with a 26" bull barrel for $359.00
Simmons 44 Mag 6.5-20X44 scope for $139.00
Harris bipod for $59.00
Scope rings were about $25.00

All at Bass Pro Shop.

A tack-driving motor scooter at 100 yds.
 
Wild Romanian has good advice on this.

I was just looking at the Japanese Brownings, made by Miroku, IIRC. Fully equal to my Belgians, except in price. You can pick up a superposed for about a thou. Try that with a belgian. I would also suggest looking at a CZ or Rusky rifle imported by EAA. They give good value for the heard earned dollar. The CZ bolt gun (mauser type) looks like a SAKO, which is far from junk.

The pre-64 Winchester mythology is laughable except it is true. People will pay big bucks for many weapons that are basically junk but have the Win name on em. I understand the role Win had in the settling of the West but that concerned the 1866, 1873, 1876, 1886, and 1892, and maybe 1894 and 1895 models, most of which are obsolete. The bolt actions, shotguns, etc, with the exception of the 97 and 12 were never classics, imho. Well, Jack O'Connor touted the 270 to anybody that would listen. :P

On the other hand, the Colt 45 Auto is still in production and still a viable design and will probably be for another 50 years.
 
If you run across some of Interarms' offerings in .223 bolt guns, I think you'll be happy with the bang for the buck. They're beautiful to look at, they're quite inexpensive, they're tough, and the accuracy is sub MOA, even for the light sporter. Hard to beat for under $500.

Best,

L.P.
 
Savage 12BVSS-S - Solid bottom single shot action (poor man's 40x), 26" stainless barrel, and a VERY nice laminated stock.

About $450, made in 'Merica, and one of the more accurate factory varmint rifles...
 
I think the Japanese are making good quality weapons, but I don't see them making any better groups than decent rifles made in the US. If you want a low buck accurate 223, buy a handi rifle.
I'm one of those who blew most of their money on a high quality rifle and then bought a relatively cheap scope-IMHO, a good rifle with a so-so quality scope is going to group better than a so-so rifle with an expensive scope. In fact, a friend of mine who goes through more rifles in 2 years than I have ever owned in my life has proven this theory time and time again, much to his chagrin. Buys a lot of Japanese Brownings and whatnot, but I talked him into buying a VLS Remington to which he fitted a really nice Leopold to, and is the best out of the box rifle he says he's ever owned. He has yet to group quite as well as my VS Remington in the same caliber, although he comes close. Couple of morals here.
1. Ya can't whup what you can't see.
2. It might be pretty, but it doesn't mean it will group.
 
This is out of my area of real experience, but FWIW...

A good friend ordered a Howa 1500 in .223 on a lark. Stainless and black plastic and as best I remember he paid around $320 plus shipping.

It shoots okay accuracy wise.

The trigger sucks. Not only is it heavy and mushy, but there is a big spring in it somewhere (firing pin spring?) that goes SPROOOONG when it fires. I can hear it, and feel it, even wearing foam plugs and good muffs.

He's not real happy with the rifle.

Like I said, FWIW.

JT
 
If you really want to keep your cost down try a NEF Handi rifle, single shot with exposed hammer and not very good looking but they shoot great. :D They can be had in a number of calibers that might suit you and they are very inexpensive.
 
Give some thought to "good used" or "nearly new". I paid $400 for my Ruger 77 Mk II with a Tasco scope and mounts and sling and ammo-sleeve. Added the Timney trigger and was still way under $500.

Art
 
As said before get a Savage.
I had a Howa .223 it was a poor shooter.
If you want to go real cheap get a H&R handi rifle. Cheap and they are really good shooters.
 
ATeam
The Savage 110FP is a fine rifle and very accurite and just cause it is ugly doesn't mean you are gonna look like a soldier boy wantabe. Look at precission rifles, varmint rifles and tactical rifles.
The ALL have big BULL barrels, stock of steriods and these ultra LR scopes.

My reason for choicing the Savage over the Howa was stock options....The Howa is a d*mn fine rifle and will hold .50 and better with the right shooter. My problem was I couldn't find a stock offering to suit me.
Now the stock on the Savage is no better and I would say to replace it ASAP. I shop the boards for most of my deals and I found a NBF Savage 110FP in .308......about right for Rouge Bull Prararie Dogs, I was thinking, so I bought it as pictured below for a good price
70697_Savage.jpg

Looking much the same as a Howa but someone had painted the stock green.

Okay, the stock was the worst I have seem next to a Choate Tool SK's Plastice Monte Carlo. So I had a buddy order a Choate Tool Ultimate Varmint Stock from Brownell's. I had a 4-16x40 Simmons Blazer collecting dust and so now I have this
69678_110FP.jpg

Now as scary, mean and evil as it may appear......You can alway paint the stock to soften the image of a hardened, cold, trained wantabe Soldier boy to say a sky blue with Power Puff Girl stickers. Then maybe the Prararie Poodles wouldn't worry so much and the guys you shoot with......well, you know?
Sorry, I couldn't help it :rolleyes:

I know where a 110FP in .308 is for $295 and I think I saw one in .223 on a board somewhere...If I run across them I will post a link for you.

Just me...alway got an opinion and I should hope you take it as such.

Karsten
 
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