Enfield in .308 ?
- Thread starter bbrins
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ohen cepel
New member
I'm not an Enfield expect but I have a few of them (all in .303) and love them.
If you want a .308 I think you should get an Ishapore (Indian) that was originally built a little stronger and chambered from the beginning in .308 (might have been 7.62x51 actually). If I wanted a .308, that would be my plan.
If you want a .308 I think you should get an Ishapore (Indian) that was originally built a little stronger and chambered from the beginning in .308 (might have been 7.62x51 actually). If I wanted a .308, that would be my plan.
Adventurer_96
New member
I have an Ishapore and it is a fun and fairly accurate shooter. I have a problem with feeding from the magazine on occasion in that the bolt doesn't catch the round to push it forward into the chamber, but otherwise it is an excellent gun for the money (under $100 as I recall). I didn't get matching numbers on mine, but then I'm never anticipating selling it either!
Word is, the .308 conversions sometimes have feeding and extraction issues, since the original action was geared towards a rimmed (.303) cartridge and the .308 is rimless. No, I don't own a .308 converted enfield, or a IShapore, so I dunno how prevalentthese problems are.
Mike
Mike
RazorsEdge
New member
Ditto on Ishapore feeding problems. I got one that will feed only if I am careful to presee up on bolt rear when feeding, which noses the bolt face downward to catch cartridge.
Sorree baabee, that ain't good enough. Not sure what I'm going to do with it.
Otherwise, it is an accurate rifle with great sights.
I f you buy an Ishapore, insist on a feeding test before you give up the geld. Safety first!
Sorree baabee, that ain't good enough. Not sure what I'm going to do with it.
Otherwise, it is an accurate rifle with great sights.
I f you buy an Ishapore, insist on a feeding test before you give up the geld. Safety first!
No.4 conversions are safe if your loads are held to military pressures. The most likely ones to be encountered are Enforcer, Envoy or L39A1 types or commercial equivalents done by various British & Canadian gunsmiths. These all have heavy barrels and woodwork cut back to sporting dimensions. L8A1 versions are scarce and unlikely to be encountered unless they are DCRA ones from Canada.
The British government and various gunsmiths in Britain and other countries converted No.4 rifles to 7.62 NATO (actually not .308 Winchester, which runs to a bit higher pressure) primarily for target shooting. These worked fine.
I don't know of any successful conversions of the Rifle No. 1 to 7.62 or .308. The Ishapore 2 and 2a rifles were not conversions; they were made in 7.62 NATO. Again, it might be wise to forego use of .308 Winchester and stick to NATO spec ammo. I have one and it shoots well and works fine with no feeding problems. I have seen a couple with broken extractor springs, and that seems to be a common problem.
Jim
I don't know of any successful conversions of the Rifle No. 1 to 7.62 or .308. The Ishapore 2 and 2a rifles were not conversions; they were made in 7.62 NATO. Again, it might be wise to forego use of .308 Winchester and stick to NATO spec ammo. I have one and it shoots well and works fine with no feeding problems. I have seen a couple with broken extractor springs, and that seems to be a common problem.
Jim
hksigwalther
New member
I've got a Gibbs Quest Extreme II, which I understand are Ishies. Mine has worked fine out of the box and is surprisingly fun to shoot. Not MOA accurate but I didn't expect it to be. The nearly non-pistol gripped stock is a bit wierd to shoot with at first but you get use to it.
Although if you pull out an empty case slowly from the chamber using the bolt it appears that it misses the screw ejector, I have only had maybe 4 or 5 failure to ejects in about 1000 rounds when cycling at normal speed. the ejection is a bit erratic going anywhere from 1:00 to 5:00 and from 2 to 10 feet away. The key to avaoiding any ejecting problems in the QEII is to work the bolt vigorously. Not like a modern bolt action where you can take it a little easier. Gibbs also sells refurbed .303 Enfields.
The aftermarket mags I had purchased for it are crap. Go with OE mags. Sportman's Guide sells them for $40/ea, IIRC.
At lest one other TFL poster, however, has had headspacing problems with his and had gottne rid of his. Mine works fine without any headspacing problems that I can detect from spent casings.
Although if you pull out an empty case slowly from the chamber using the bolt it appears that it misses the screw ejector, I have only had maybe 4 or 5 failure to ejects in about 1000 rounds when cycling at normal speed. the ejection is a bit erratic going anywhere from 1:00 to 5:00 and from 2 to 10 feet away. The key to avaoiding any ejecting problems in the QEII is to work the bolt vigorously. Not like a modern bolt action where you can take it a little easier. Gibbs also sells refurbed .303 Enfields.
The aftermarket mags I had purchased for it are crap. Go with OE mags. Sportman's Guide sells them for $40/ea, IIRC.
At lest one other TFL poster, however, has had headspacing problems with his and had gottne rid of his. Mine works fine without any headspacing problems that I can detect from spent casings.
I`ve got a Navy Arms .308 Jungle Carbine and am happy with it.I believe Navy Arms has bought Gibbs.In the ammo dept.I have had a strange thing happen.My rifle doesn`t seem to like ammo marked 7.62X51.I have tried Portugese surplus as well as S&B and both brands have the cases stick after firing.I had the chamber polished by a gunsmith and it didn`t cure the problem.On the other hand it never fails to eject US commercial .308.I have fired Winchester 150gr.sp`s and UMC 150gr.fmj`s with no problems.The owners manual says the rifle is chambered for .308/7.62 NATO though the reciever is marked 7.62.The rifle is an Ishapore.As far as feeding problems I echo hksigwalthers experience.Working the bolt vigorously works better then trying to baby it.I have read that they are prone to break extractor springs and have picked up an extra just in case.
Hi, guys,
Some concerns have been expressed elsewhere about use of .308 Winchester commercial ammo in the Ishapore rifles and also in the Spanish FR-8, because .308 tends to run higher pressure than the 7.62 NATO spec. I don't have an FR-8, but I stick to military spec ammo in my Ishapore rifle.
Jim
Some concerns have been expressed elsewhere about use of .308 Winchester commercial ammo in the Ishapore rifles and also in the Spanish FR-8, because .308 tends to run higher pressure than the 7.62 NATO spec. I don't have an FR-8, but I stick to military spec ammo in my Ishapore rifle.
Jim
fmjcafe,
I just got my first Ishapore Enfield in 7.62 nato this last week. A really fun rifle and with cheap ammo, what's not to like. Sure it's ugly as sin, but it shoots fairly accurately and functions reliably.
fmj..... the friend I got this rifle from has had 9 Ishy .308's in the last year. He has kept the best 3 and selling the rest. He tells me that I got the best of his "rejects".
He did tell me of one rifle that was, according to him, a real beauty with all matching serials and nice wood. It practically broke his heart when he began firing it though. He was experiencing the same problems you were, VERY hard extractions. What he found was that there was a bulged "ring" in the chamber that the case was expanding into on firing, and then being virtually locked into the chamber. This one is now a "parts gun".
He has no idea how this ring was made, but was most likely made by an overpressure round.
Look over some of the brass from your rifle.... Is there a shiny ring made by a bulge being swaged out as you pull it from the chamber??? Can you get a bore light and see into the chamber area?? Look for anything suspicious.
Just my .02,
Swampy
I just got my first Ishapore Enfield in 7.62 nato this last week. A really fun rifle and with cheap ammo, what's not to like. Sure it's ugly as sin, but it shoots fairly accurately and functions reliably.
fmj..... the friend I got this rifle from has had 9 Ishy .308's in the last year. He has kept the best 3 and selling the rest. He tells me that I got the best of his "rejects".
He did tell me of one rifle that was, according to him, a real beauty with all matching serials and nice wood. It practically broke his heart when he began firing it though. He was experiencing the same problems you were, VERY hard extractions. What he found was that there was a bulged "ring" in the chamber that the case was expanding into on firing, and then being virtually locked into the chamber. This one is now a "parts gun".
He has no idea how this ring was made, but was most likely made by an overpressure round.
Look over some of the brass from your rifle.... Is there a shiny ring made by a bulge being swaged out as you pull it from the chamber??? Can you get a bore light and see into the chamber area?? Look for anything suspicious.
Just my .02,
Swampy
Check out www.ishapur.com where they answer some of the questions asked in this thread. Also check out www.milsurpshooter.net . This is a great forum discussing mil surp rifles and handguns. You will find plenty of information on Ishapur, FR-8s and what have you. Here are some further links to general information about Enfield rifles.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/shooters/303Page.htm
http://www.303british.com/
http://www.uidaho.edu/~stratton/en-page.html
http://www.parkerhale.com/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/lee_enfield_rifles/
http://www.gunandknife.com/cgi-bin/boards/enfconfig.pl
http://www.britishairborne.org/refurbish.html
http://www.skennerton.com/
If I was you, I would just buy an Enfield in .303 unless there is some pressing reason not to (like you already own a pile of .308s and don't want to get into another caliber). The .303 shoots the same weight bullets as the .308, the .303 shoots a bullet slightly bigger in diameter (.308 vs. .311-.312), the 303 shoots that bullet about 200 fps slower than the .308, the .303 doesn't carry all the baggage of the .308 (heresay about the strength of the action). Surplus ammo in .303 is readily available. Commercial ammo in .303 is readily avialable from most if not all of the major commerical manufacturers. Bullets and brass are readily avilable from all the major manufacturers. The vast majority of Enfield owners plink or shoot targets with their rifle, but seem to be bothered to no end that the .303 shoots about 200 fps less velocity than a .308. I just don't get it. I have researched this matter pretty throughly and would feel perfectly comfortable shooting any SAMMI .308 load in the Enfield action. But, I stuck to .303 since I don't own any other .308s and I couldn't see any reason to pick it over the .303.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/shooters/303Page.htm
http://www.303british.com/
http://www.uidaho.edu/~stratton/en-page.html
http://www.parkerhale.com/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/lee_enfield_rifles/
http://www.gunandknife.com/cgi-bin/boards/enfconfig.pl
http://www.britishairborne.org/refurbish.html
http://www.skennerton.com/
If I was you, I would just buy an Enfield in .303 unless there is some pressing reason not to (like you already own a pile of .308s and don't want to get into another caliber). The .303 shoots the same weight bullets as the .308, the .303 shoots a bullet slightly bigger in diameter (.308 vs. .311-.312), the 303 shoots that bullet about 200 fps slower than the .308, the .303 doesn't carry all the baggage of the .308 (heresay about the strength of the action). Surplus ammo in .303 is readily available. Commercial ammo in .303 is readily avialable from most if not all of the major commerical manufacturers. Bullets and brass are readily avilable from all the major manufacturers. The vast majority of Enfield owners plink or shoot targets with their rifle, but seem to be bothered to no end that the .303 shoots about 200 fps less velocity than a .308. I just don't get it. I have researched this matter pretty throughly and would feel perfectly comfortable shooting any SAMMI .308 load in the Enfield action. But, I stuck to .303 since I don't own any other .308s and I couldn't see any reason to pick it over the .303.
Hi,Swampy.
As I said earlier,I had a gunsmith look over the rifle and what he told me was that there was some of the black paint used to finish the rifle was in the chamber.I didn`t see it when I looked in there but thats what he told me.He cleaned it out of there and polished the chamber.I was hoping that would clear up the problem but it didn`t.I did notice a slight bulge near the base of the fired rounds of the milsurp but as I said it handles Winchester and UMC ammo fine with good accuracy.
I wonder if Navy Arms has modified the chambers to .308 Win.specs.The owners manual that came with the rifle says it`s chambered for .308/7.62NATO.I`m no authority but I`ve seen here on TFL that they are different calibers.I would be interested in what the differences are if someone would like to chime in.Is there a dimensional difference or is it strictly a pressure issue?
As I said earlier,I had a gunsmith look over the rifle and what he told me was that there was some of the black paint used to finish the rifle was in the chamber.I didn`t see it when I looked in there but thats what he told me.He cleaned it out of there and polished the chamber.I was hoping that would clear up the problem but it didn`t.I did notice a slight bulge near the base of the fired rounds of the milsurp but as I said it handles Winchester and UMC ammo fine with good accuracy.
I wonder if Navy Arms has modified the chambers to .308 Win.specs.The owners manual that came with the rifle says it`s chambered for .308/7.62NATO.I`m no authority but I`ve seen here on TFL that they are different calibers.I would be interested in what the differences are if someone would like to chime in.Is there a dimensional difference or is it strictly a pressure issue?
The 7.62 NATO and the .308 Winchester are, for all practical purposes, dimensionally identical. It is the higher pressure of the .308 that has led to concern about its use in some rifles chambered for 7.62 NATO. The ones often mentioned are the Ishapore and the Spanish FR-8. I have seen no mention of concern with the Rifle No. 4 in .308, but that might be because they are scarce. AFAIK, no concerns have been expressed with any other Mauser 98 action (the FR-8 is a 98 action, but Spanish actions are notorious for being soft), although I have seen some reports of M14 type rifles shedding extractors when fired with .308.
Jim
Jim
fmjcafe: One thing to think about since your rifle seems to work fine with commercial ammo, is that a lot of surplus ammo is painted with laquer (sp) to seal it against moisture. This laquer is notorious for getting sticky when the chamber gets hot causing the kinds of problems you are experiencing. I would tend to think the chamber is fine since it works OK with US commercial ammo.
444,
I think that you nailed it on why to get the .308 conversion ... I decided to standardize on .308 whenever possible, just to reduce the number of sets of dies I have to deal with and to reduce the ammo inventory. You can get a Garand in .308 (I don't NEED a .30- 06 in my collection) you can get an Enfield in .308 (I don't NEED a .303 in my collection), you can get a Mauser K98K in .308 (I don't NEED an 8x57 in my collection, although I'll have one at least until I get around to doing that particular conversion
)
I also heartily agree with your preference for the original, however, if you don't already have a .308 or two ... I used to have a .303 and I felt fine about how it performed ... it just didn't fit within the norms of the gun safe ... so I gave it to a friend ... who LOVES it.
Saands
I think that you nailed it on why to get the .308 conversion ... I decided to standardize on .308 whenever possible, just to reduce the number of sets of dies I have to deal with and to reduce the ammo inventory. You can get a Garand in .308 (I don't NEED a .30- 06 in my collection) you can get an Enfield in .308 (I don't NEED a .303 in my collection), you can get a Mauser K98K in .308 (I don't NEED an 8x57 in my collection, although I'll have one at least until I get around to doing that particular conversion
) I also heartily agree with your preference for the original, however, if you don't already have a .308 or two ... I used to have a .303 and I felt fine about how it performed ... it just didn't fit within the norms of the gun safe ... so I gave it to a friend ... who LOVES it.
Saands