Enfield for project rifle

K

KenReb

New member
I am considering buying an Enfield rifle for a project, based on an article I read in American Gunsmith about an Ishapore in .308. My question are:

1. Is there a real drawback to a British Enfield in .303? How good is this round compared to .308, 30/06? Reloading is not a problem, even though I am just getting started.

2. According to the article, an Ishapore has a slightly stronger receiver, is this really the case?

I was at a gun show this weekend, and was only able to examine a British.

The rifle will be used for mainly plinking, but possibly for hunting. I have a Savage in 30/06 that I use for deer and I have used a Garand that I purchased a few years ago and it is a great rifle.

This is my first project rifle, so any help would be appreciated.

Ken
 
I got to fooling with Lee-Enfields a couple of years ago when my kids' college tuition forbade spending real money on guns; it has been fun, educational, and worthwhile. I must caution you, however, that I know nothing about Ishapores beyond hearsay. For really good answers and to double check what I say go to the Lee-Enfield board over at www.gunandknife.com--a very good and helpful site (if a trifle wierd). See also the site called 'The .303 Page'.

Not sure what your 'project' entails, but briefly here are my results to date. I have three #4Mk 1s, one #4Mk2, and one #1 MkIII; all, of course, in .303. The latter two are as issued; the Mk.1s are all 'sporterized' as follows: Barrel cut back to sight base and ears removed; military stock discarded and replaced with Advanced Technologies' 'zytel' (fiberglass?) sporter style stock; 1 1/4" sling swivels and GI web/nylon slings fitted. The result is a very nice handling rifle that works well in slung position shooting and seems indestructible. The one I shoot most is a very practical, accurate rifle. The #4s have aperture sights which are far superior to the Ishapores and other open sight models.

The .303 cartridge is about equivalent to the .30-40 Krag; very pleasant to shoot and adequate for anything within reason, either on targets or game. In Canada it and the .30-30 are still standbys everywhere. It is, however, a different breed of cat to reload. If you full length resize the .303 each firing you will probably get head separations about the third or fourth firing. Chamber dimensions and headspace on Lee-Enfields are often generous but this does not have to be serious. The solution is to neck size only, trim as needed, keep loads moderate, and segregate cases by the rifle fired in. It takes some head scratching to get it all together but it all works out. Oddly enough I have had the best luck loading .303 with the primitive Lee Loader. I am still working out minor things but the bottom line is that I get excellent results and good case life. The only bullet I have handloaded is the Speer 150 gr. spitzer but it performs well. I have used it out to 500 yards from slung prone and put 2 of 4 into a gallon jug. Not bad for a $150 rifle.

I have other toys which outperform this one; but I would have no hesitation in taking it anywhere in North America right now. Pretty impressive for a rifle and cartridge adopted in 1888.

As you can tell I think the #4 in .303 is a more practical piece than the Ishapore.

FWIW.

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The book "Bolt Action Rifles" by Frank DeHaas has a chapter on the Lee-Enfield. In it, he writes that the No. 1 and No.4 rifles can both be remodeled into fine sporting rifles. You can get a stock set from aftermarket stock makers, iron sights from Redfield or Williams, shorten the barrel, trim & polish, and reblue. The No. 4 is easier to scope with one of the aftermarket scope mounts.
Shotgun News used to have conversion sets (barrel, bolt head, magazine) to convert the .303 to the 7.62 for about $200. Canadian target shooters have extensive experience in this conversion. Any word from the Northerners?
Many older wildcats are based on the .303 British case (look at some of the die makers' custom catalogs for what is available); then you only have to rebarrel. Frank DeHaas recommends against this, however. Within reach also is a .45-70 conversion.
It is easier to make a single-shot than getting some of the wildcat rounds to feed through the magazine.
If it was me, I'd try to make an NRA Match Rifle conversion in 7.62 out of a No.4.

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God and soldiers, we adore
In times of danger, not before
With the danger safely righted
God is forgotten, and soldiers slighted
 
I don't have any experience with the Ishapores but I hear that they are decent rifles.
I am a big fan of the #4s and the #5s. I found a sporterized #5 Jungle Carbine in a gun shop a few years ago. I turned it into a scout rifle. The stock is a synthetic Ram Line sporter. The original barrel was shot out so I replaced it with a surplus 2 groove barrel that I got from Springfield Sporters for $20! I sent it down to Ashley Outdoors and they installed the barrel, cut it down to 19", installed a new front sight and installed a scout mount. I installed a Leupold scout scope with some Warne QD rings, a Galco "Ching Sling" and a Galco 5 round butt cuff. I had to fire lap the barrel due to excessive copper fouling but it's good to go now. The rifle is more accurate than I ever expected it to be. It really likes Greek HXP surplus ammo. It regularly shoots it into 3/4" at 100 yds. Most of my hand loads hover right around 1".
Building an Enfield presents some interesting challenges but it can be very rewarding. I like the old 303. My 174 gr loads clock at about 2500 fps. I recently chronographed some Hornady Light Magnum 303 150 gr. loads. They give me an honest 2800 fps and average a little over 1 moa at 100 yds. They are expensive though!
Stick with the 303 and have fun. The iron sighes on the #4s and #5s can't be beat!
 
I built a p-scout from an Ishy. Depending on the amount of work you are planning, I don't think you would go wrong with the Ishy or a #4. The Ishy is essentially a #1 MkIII in .308. The #4 has better sights, but if your plans include scoping the rifle that works out as a wash.

I can't answer the question about the increased receiver strength in the Ishy, but I've seen no sign of weakness. I've had a cartridge case failure and was completely satisfied with the way the design handled the escaping gasses.

My Ishy seems to like Israeli surplus better than the loads I have worked up. I've still a lot of combinations to try though.

Good luck with your project.
 
CAVEAT: The poster has no experience with .308-chambered Enfields and he also does not reload. He is a senseless git without a clue, talking out of his butt. Weigh his advice accordingly.

Some have said that the .308-chambered enfields are problematic due to the fact that the .308 is a rimless round and the action was designed to extract the rimmed .303 round. The mysterious 'they' say that due to this fact the Ishapore enfields sometimes fail to extract reliably.

As far as the .303 round vs the .308 round, well...you could have a my-round-is-better-than-your-round holy war on almost any comparison, but the general consensus is that the .303 is accurate and powerful enough for almost any serious work. Finding widely available cheap factory ammo for the .303 is a bit of a chore, however.

FWIW,

Mike


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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
 
Originally posted by Coronach:
CAVEAT: The poster has no experience with .308-chambered Enfields and he also does not reload. He is a senseless git without a clue, talking out of his butt. Weigh his advice accordingly.


Who does this apply to?

Thanks for the help. I will do a little more research into the subject. Maybe even figure out all the differences with the Mausers. Would this be a more satisfactory result for the end product? Maybe in 6.5x55?

Thanks again
Ken
Click to expand...
 
*laugh*

Me! :D

Mike

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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
 
Hello. I have a No.4MkII in .303Brit. I see no problem with the original .303 as a hunting round, but do realize that it's not quite as hot as a .308 and use it accordingly. My rifle's been customized in that the bbl's cut to 20" with new front sight and a Leupold 2X pistol sight mounted to the rear of the bbl via Weaver mounts, trigger job and the stock reconfigured. It shoots into about 1 1/4" @ 100 yards and would probably do better were I to put a "real" scope on it.

For reloading, I neck size only to avoid the insipient case separation problem mentioned by others.

It's a reliable rifle, the design is proven in battle world wide, and should make a fine hunting or general purpose rifle.

Best.
 
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