Encounters with leo's

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I've had various encounters with traffic stops, and I'd like to share them.

On the good side:
Ann Arbor, Michigan. An officer pulled me over near the bar's closing time. Asked me to demonstrate that I was in shape to drive. He had a partner. Both were courteous. I was happy to comply. Did one stupid thing. I turned toward my car to close the car door after the officers ordered me to approach them. The senior leo scolded me that what I did was stupid. I knew I deserved it.
Southern California. An officer pulled me over for lack of current registration sticker on the license plate. It was not my vehicle, and the registration was current. It's just that the owner didn't get around to putting up the sticker. The leo was friendly (maybe because I smiled a lot and asked "what's up?" when he approached our vehicle) He checked that everything was in order and bid us farewell.
On the bad side:
Ann Arbor, MI. An officer pulled me over for making an illegal right turn on red. Issued me a ticket. I went to the court. He was four hours late. (could I have asked for a dismissal for a no-show?) I explained that I failed to come to a full stop at the traffic light due to a concern for ice on the road. (I had to scrape ice off my vehicle after a three hour long parking on roadside) The officer simply stated he knew of no ice forming that night. The judge sided with him. In retrospect I should have brought news clippings of that night's weather.
Southern CA. An officer pulled me over for tailgating. My cruise control was set to two miles BELOW the legal speed limit. There just happened to be three vehicles in front of me who were slowing down due to the presence of the patrol car. We were in the fast lane. I disengaged the cruise control and fell into place behind the slow vehicles. I took my time in establishing safe distance so the leo pulled me over.
Here's what makes this a bad experience. There's a patrol station at the next freeway exit after the leo initiated the stop. The Rodney King beating was only a couple of months before. I signalled the leo with hand gestures that I am exiting the freeway and will he follow me please. He used his PA to tell me pull over into the next gas station one block shy of the patrol station. He then came to my vehicle all pissed. STood with his feet wide apart in a cocky stance. Rested his hand on his weapon the whole time except to hand me the citation for my signature. That kind of attitude does not belong in civilized company.

-Courtesy is the lubricant of civilized society. It keeps us from bashing each other's brains in. [Robert Heinlein]

The laws we have now make criminals of us all. The only safe speed on the freeway is the speed of the traffic. Two cars going in the same direction and speed do not collide. I will be just as dead if a) I drive at 25 miles over the limit and hit someone going at the limit, or b) someone else drives at 25 miles over the limit and hit me going at the limit.
I just read in the Wall Street Journal this morning that we must make the charities give us receipts for our donations over $250. Such receipts must detail the amount of donation AND whether we received any gifts in return for the donation. Otherwise the IRS will not recognize the donation for deduction. There. A charitable donation had just made me a criminal because the charity was lazy and did not give a couple of details on their receipt.
I just feel so powerless against all these laws that make us criminals just doing day-to-day things. How can I be happy with the leo who enforces these laws to my detriment?
 
I have been pulled over a grand total of seven times, five of them for tickets...haven't had a ticket in the last ten years however. In all but one of the cases, I was in the wrong and deserved a ticket (even though I didn't get one in one case). In all but one of those instances that I got a ticket, the officer was curteous and professionl....the one who wasn't was convinced I had been trying to run from him because I hadn't noticed him turn around and put his lights on before I turned off down the road to my friend's apartment complex. He was a cycle cop and complained that he could have wrecked chasing me. I didn't say anything, but my thoughts were "Why did you bother to chase me then? I was only going seven over the limit on an almost deserted four lane road at 10PM."
But be that as it may, the one time I didn't even deserve to be pulled over was when I was stopping at a stop sign on a steep downhill road and my brakes didn't grab fast enough and I wound up going over the white line by a few feet. The cop pulled me and tried to say I hadn't come to a complete stop (though I had) but finally let me off.
All in all, though, none of the cops were abusive except the cycle cop who was angry and a bit strident.
The police around here are pretty cool...as long as you're the right color and dressed the right way. They have a reputation for being not-so-cool if you don't meet those criteria.
 
Rik,

Officers must percieve things from a different veiw point than us. When he hit his lights to pull you over he didn't know you didn't see them, when an officer hits his lights to initiate a traffic stop he expects you to pull over immediatly. Waiting and pulling off the main road onto a side street or complex makes the officers threat level rise. Is he going to bail out and wind up in a foot pursuit or is he pulling into this secluded area to fight or even possibly kill me? If you get the oppurtunity ask your local police or sheriffs dept. if they have a ride along program, if so participate in a ride along or two and have the officer explain why they use the tactics they do and what makes them jumpy. Then you will "understand" and look at things in a different light.
 
solo, I know how cops think, one of my brother in laws is a police officer and another used to be. The pastor of my church was a police officer, two of my friends are police officers, one on the SO SWAT team.
I don't really think it was necessary for you to snatch at the one negative encounter I ever had and try to analyze it from over ten years later and third hand.
 
This happened in New Jersey when I was in college a couple of decades ago. I was on a main road looking for a particular ice cream place to meet my date. I wasn't sure where it was but I knew that I was heading in the right direction and that it would be on the left hand side.

As I was stopped at a light, I saw a police car pull up behind me. When the light turned green, I started looking for speed limit signs. Not seeing any and knowing that the police car was behind me, I drove 25mph since the speed in New Jersey on local roads is 25mph unless otherwise posted.

I continued for a few miles with him behind me all the way. When I saw the place that I was going to, I pulled in and he pulled in right behind me blocking me in. As I was about to exit out of my car, he ran toward me with his gun drawn and ordered me to get back in the car. Bear in mind that he hadn't actually pulled me over as there were no lights or sirens.

He asked to see my paperwork and told me that he was going to issue me three tickets: [1] For doing 10 miles under the posted speed limit; [2] for failing to keep right (New Jersey has a law that you have to travel in the right lane except to pass and I was driving in the left lane because I knew that I would eventually making a left turn; and [3] for slowing down the flow of traffic (since I was going under the speed limit).

When I pointed out that there were no other cars on the road, he pointed out that he was on the road.

[This message has been edited by FUD (edited February 10, 2000).]
 
solo...

please don't take this as a flame, but I gotta throw in my .02 here...

you made the statement that when an officer hits his lights he expects you to pull over immediately...I can go along with that to a point...however, I seem to recall seeing on the evening news in LA a lot of advice type stories telling drivers that in the event that they are being pulled over, they should pull over in a well lighted area, preferably in a parking lot type of space...this was in response to a rash of robberies related to fake cops pulling over women and ripping off their purses or worse...now, in my book this seems to indicate that the officer that's pulling over the citizen is not the only person that's bracing for a possible incident...I'm sorry, but I tend to believe that since the officer is the one who is pulling you over, it is their responsibility to maintain their demeanor and not get huffy when you don't respond immediately...believe it or not, there is sometimes cause to mistrust those who are pulling you over...

G

[This message has been edited by DeakonG (edited February 10, 2000).]
 
I've had one bad encounter.

In a large SC hospital I was working with a post-op elderly female doing pulmonary rehab and deep breathing...this is to prevent pneumonia. It's painful, but very nessesary. The patient and family were instructed prior to therapy that there would be some unavoidablr pain. The family is in the room learning to help and one is a uniformed SC state trooper.

At one point, the patient groans with pain and the trooper starts to YELL at me. I ask him to step outside where I attempt to again explain the procedure and why some pain is unavoidable. He starts to yell again that I'm 'hurtin his **** momma', and he actually puts his hand on his holstered gun!!

I was pretty shook, but simply walked into the nursing station and paged my supervisor. I also refused to treat that patient for the remainder of her stay.
 
Rik,

Didn't mean to touch a nerve, I'm so used to every thread being a cop bashing contest that I turn into defensive mode and stand up for leo's. I appologize for my snappy comment.

[This message has been edited by solo (edited February 10, 2000).]
 
Regarding pulling off of the freeway to a well lighted area:

Some years ago, in So. California, the instructions broadcast instructed people to do just this. This was after two women were raped and murdered by Cal. Highway Patrol officers. They were convicted of federal civil rights violations, not murder as local D.A. didn't want to prosecute them.

More recently, in El Paso, TX several deputy sheriffs were convicted of pulling over women in dark,isolated areas and raping them.

If the officers don't like stopping in lighted areas, F*** them. Perhaps they have some other agenda in mind. I know I'll get flamed for this but so be it.

marsh
 
Solo, no problem. I don't dislike cops and respect the job they do and the risks they take. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.
 
mine have generally been postive. i am honest and respectful. i've only encountered three badge heavy #ssholes out of approximately 15 encounters. even my juvenile arrest was by good folks.

my problem with le as a whole has always been certain laws and certain allowed and practiced methods of enforcement.
 
I have talked this over with other law enforcement personal. How you act after you get lite up. If you keep driving or speed up you may be treated as resisting. If you slow down and put on your 4way flashers and pull over at the FIRST lighted area you should be ok. Best if you call 911 on your cell phone and tell SP to tell officer "in the area you are in" that you will stop at the first well lit area. Keep your door locked but open the window enough to pass DL and talk. You can refuse to unlock and leave your car for a basic traffic stop until another unit arrives. Now if you have tried to get away it is a whold differend deal. GET a cell phone and call in as soon as you feel you will be pulled over. "If you are concerned about fake officers or the very, very few bad ones.
 
Larry, what happens if you are in a state with laws against using a cell phone while driving?

I have always been a strong supporter of LEOs but a few years ago I was taking a few administration of justice classes at the local university. In one of the classes a student was doing a research paper on the reasons people wanted to go into law enforcment. The students were given a list of 20 reasons they were interested in law enforcment and were asked to rank them from most important to least important. Some reasons were job security, adventure, desire to help others, even simple curiosity. What appauled me was the number of people who listed things like position of authority, power, or enforce morality (whose morality).
 
Jake;
Your last point is the worst because years ago, that would probably have disqualified an applicant automatically. Now we`re so PC that may not be the case.
When I was in the academy 25 years ago a friend in my company decided to screw around on the pyschological testing. He was a highly intelligent guy and thought it would be funny. He had to see just about every shrink in the dep`t before he convinced them not to fire him. The last time I saw him was at a funeral about 10 years ago. By then he was a Captain and the XO of a precinct. If he hasn`t retired yet he has to be at least an Inspector.
 
Was funny then & still is now...
About 14 yrs ago, I was visiting a mates house but he wasn't home so I just drove by...
A Police car in the OPPOSITE direction became interested in me.
Since we were going different ways the Police car had to turn left & go up a different but parallel street to follow me.
Mind you by this time there were about 3/4 of a mile behind me.
By the time they finally caught up to me (about 5mls later)LIGHTS ablazing, the two twenty something Constables were FUMING !
When the first approached my door he said "Do you know how FAST we had to go to catch you ?"
I then pointed out that, YES I DID know how fast they must've went & why were they pulling me over as I had committed NO offense ?....
Can't remember his muttered reply but it was as if BECAUSE of their stupidity for SPEEDING through neighbourhood streets, I should be the one who was punished !
Well durh.... ;)
Didn't get a ticket & it still brings a smile to my face thinking about it...LOL :)

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i was followed for 2.5 miles thru minneapolis by police...finally pulled over, removed from my car, frisked, and told i was pulled over for having an air frshener hanging from my mirror.my car is older and i am heavily tattooed...it was a bull**** stop..after doing drunk exercises,and a twenty minute license check i was allowed to go ....no ticket. I have been pulled over before b/c the officer couldnt read the the month on the little sticker that says my car is registered thats on my plate...that was a 15 min stop..I HATE LAW ENFORCEMENT...i make it a point when i see a black person stopped in my neighborhood to watch, and make it obvious that i watch...i also give my name and # to the person that gets pulled over...youd be suprised how much that cuts down on ticket writing around here....absolute power corrupts absolutely
 
Last year I took photos of several traffic stops (for use in posters which I never did design). In some cases I was ignored, in two cases threatened to "get the fukk away". It occured to me later that I should have given the pics and particulars to police review board and suggested checking out the legality of those stops.

As I mentioned before, I got acquainted with the local beat cops. Still, in my mind, I would prefer to deal with junkies looking for quick fix money than with crookedcops. It is possible to survive junkies. Then again, I'd prefer honest cops to either of those.
 
yy,

It seems like almost everyone here has had at least one, if not several, encounters.
Some are pleasant, most are not.
I have my own, but since they can only add to general feelings of mistrust and ill will I'll keep them to myself.

I'm not defending the actions of LEOs; they are more than capable of doing that for themselves, here.
And they often do. :)

I respect them for their choice of career.
I've seen their job(s) and I wouldn't want it...


------------------
...defend the 2nd., it protects us all.
No fate but what we make...
 
YY,
My wife had a similar dealing with a State Trooper in Illinois about 10 years ago. It was in February in middle of Iowa/Illinois. It was 5:30 PM, and in a darkened area 'cause of a tree canopy over the highway there. An oncoming driver wasn't wearing headlights, and she didn't see him, and she passed another vehicle. A Trooper was two/three cars behind, and pulled her over and ticketed her for an improper pass.

We chose to have a bench hearing (big mistake). The officer placed on the citation the road conditions, weather, lighting, etc; and all were inaccurate for the time of year, weather, location. We proved to the judge the weather conditions from news clipping (weather service etc.), also that there was a weather advisory from the Highway Patrol, for Christ sake. Also had the time of day, compared with a calendar to show dusk, twilight, etc. Also had a witness from behind us show up.

Top no avail, with all the evidence that the officer was err in judgement, we lost the case. So, it seems, that even when the truth is in clear sight, it does not matter. And no, we did not see the need to hire counsel when we had all the facts, and the truth on our side. So much for Justice. Win some, lose most.

Just another chapter in the life and times of...


Best Regards,
Don

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The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler

[This message has been edited by Donny (edited February 12, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Donny (edited February 12, 2000).]
 
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