Embrace, Extend, Eliminate - Join the MMM!

B

Bartholomew Roberts

Moderator
During the Microsoft trial, it was revealed that inside Microsoft, the company's policy of "embracing and extending" new technologies developed by other companies was jokingly referred to as "Embrace, Extend, and Eliminate".

We have a novel opportunity to do exactly that with our latest rival, the MMM. This is an organization with lots of cash (due to a $1 million anonymous donation); but few members. In fact, it appears that local chapters are having a difficult time recruiting members.

I propose that we join these organizations (currently MMM membership requires no dues I believe - so no money going to the opposition) and use our presence to shift the message to a more moderate one. At the same time, we get the opportunity to educate people who may be well-meaning but ignorant of the issues (and it DOES pay to educate people who have already demonstrated a willingness to be politically active).

If nothing else, we can show up at these meetings (which must be open to the public during this time when they are trying to recruit) and give these people the facts - as well as get information on their plans.

I think the key to a successful approach is to identify the areas we agree (safety of children, reduce violence of ALL kinds - mainly by imprisoning/executing the violent bastards who keep committing it) and explain in a calm and friendly way WHY we disagree (and back it with facts).

Not everyone is going to welcome the truth; but the good people in the group will - and by innoculating people against the lies of the anti-rights crowd BEFORE they are infected.

This is the best opportunity we will ever have to do this. The MMM is young and has few members. I think my local chapter has maybe 3 active members... think of what that means for the future of the organization in your town if you are able to sway the opinions of one or two people now - that could be all it takes for the organization to fold in your town.
 
You're making a fundamental mistake concerning the nature of gun control organizations; You're assuming that their members have some kind of influence over the leadership. The Bell campaign, for which the MMM's have become nothing more than a front, has already replaced at least one state coordinator who dared to even talk to pro-gunners about common goals.

Even the NRA, which is a membership organization, has defenses in place against such take-overs, such as the fact that you have to be a life member or long-time dues payer to vote. The MMMs aren't nearly as democratic. All you'd be doing is giving them more money, by paying dues.

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Sic semper tyrannis!
 
Well, like he said, there are no dues.

Imagine a "chapter" of the MMM, it's membership made up of pro-freedom people, marching in some parade, carrying pro-freedom signs. It may not be taken seriously by everyone, but it would be fun and interesting.

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"Anyone feel like saluting the flag which the strutting ATF and FBI gleefully raised over the smoldering crematorium of Waco, back in April of ‘93?" -Vin Suprynowicz

[This message has been edited by deanf (edited September 12, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You're assuming that their members have some kind of influence over the leadership.[/quote]

True. While I also cringe at the mere thought of contributing financially, I think the idea of infiltration at the local level is brilliant.

I spent some time on a left-wing board, trying to engage in a meaningful dialog, and was successful, to a degree. An important thing I learned is that many (perhaps most) liberals are not really gun-grabbers. Some are even enthusiasts. They simply think the idea of "reasonable regulation" is perfectly sensible, and can't understand why the powerful gun lobby has such a problem with it. "NRA rhetoric" only fuels their misdirected enthusiasm.

If approached with respect and a calm demeanor, many will listen to the facts, and some will even back off considerably. If one could "sneak in" and talk to them rationally, members of new local chapters might just become less enthusiastic about their support of the organization.

It's worth thinking about, anyway...

zook
 
Very interesting concept. Hate to give them more numbers but they lie about numbers anyway.

My next book? I was a mole for the RKBA

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Sam I am, grn egs n packin

Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brett Bellmore:
You're making a fundamental mistake concerning the nature of gun control organizations; You're assuming that their members have some kind of influence over the leadership. The Bell campaign, for which the MMM's have become nothing more than a front, has already replaced at least one state coordinator who dared to even talk to pro-gunners about common goals.[/quote]

On at least some level, the members DO have influence over the leadership because the leadership has to have members to lead. This may be less important for HCI; but the MMM claims to be a grass-roots effort - it has to show "grass-roots" support. Also, I recall that the incident where the state coordinator was booted made national news (even if not front page). The sum of which is that even if we got booted - it is a gain for us with nothing risked on our part.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brett Bellmore:
Even the NRA, which is a membership organization, has defenses in place against such take-overs, such as the fact that you have to be a life member or long-time dues payer to vote. The MMMs aren't nearly as democratic. All you'd be doing is giving them more money, by paying dues.
[/quote]

Well, currently the MMM has very few members - as a result, they aren't collecting dues (at least not locally)AND they haven't put into place any membership restrictions because they are A) young and need members and B) have little control over national policy - because like most elites the leaders at the MMM have no intention of letting the peons really run anything.

Of course this means that the embrace and extend approach wouldn't affect national policy substantially at first - but it will affect what these groups do locally (fgund raising? and it if we achieve widespread success with the approach, it will eventually affect the national policy makers as well.

Last but not least, it is an excellent opportunity to stop chapters from becoming centers of anti-rights support and either move them back towards the center or reduce support so that the chapter fails. The time to strike is now - while they are still small and wide open to membership. Once they get established and have time to convince people to drink the kool-aid, we will have a much harder time fighting back.

As another thought even if the MMM did ask for dues, I can easily send $60 to the NRA-ILA for the $20 I give to the MMM.

I think a great opening would be to casually suggest that while you own guns, you do favor some restrictions on guns (like not letting only the government have them - but probably best to keep the specifics vague) and offer to take some members out shooting so they can understand what they're up against.

A fun day on the range combined with a smart soft sell should take the wind out of most people's sails if they aren't vehement anti-rights types.

[This message has been edited by Bartholomew Roberts (edited September 12, 2000).]
 
Neat idea Bart; however, I think one thing that causes the congresscritters to cringe is the membership numbers the NRA can call on or report. I sure would hate to give the MMM that little ol' million number to wave about.

Bush isn't cathing steam. I can't believe he is behind in PA.

rolltr/madison46
 
Hey I am a member of SAS, the Second Amendment Sisters. We are the counter million mom group. I am the coordinator for my area and am trying to get members together for monthly meetings. Try checking out SAS on line at www.sas-aim.org. Find out who your state coordinator is and get involved. Chances are wherever the MMM's or the Coalition for More Sensible Gun Laws are we are there too, armed with facts and not emotions.



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"Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six." -Ken Hamblin
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madison46:
Neat idea Bart; however, I think one thing that causes the congresscritters to cringe is the membership numbers the NRA can call on or report. I sure would hate to give the MMM that little ol' million number to wave about.

Bush isn't cathing steam. I can't believe he is behind in PA.

rolltr/madison46[/quote]

Well, the idea needs more scrutiny - I'll admit - however, the power of the NRAs numbers is because its members DO write their representatives and get active in elections.

We wouldn't be adding to the MMMs numbers any because we wouldn't be supporting any agenda that conflicts with the RKBA. For example, if the MMM reports 100,000 members but only 1,000 ever write their Congressman - then does anybody on the Hill really care what MMM thinks?

The reason the NRA has power is not because they say they have 4 million members but because Congress knows from past experience that those members will be active politically.

Bush has some time yet. It is too bad he is behind in PA though becuase that is a state that he could really use. Just remember though - the only poll that means anything is the one on November 7th.

Whatever happens, don't let the media beat you down (or our gun owning friends who are less active) into believing your vote doesn't count.
 
Not getting beat down, in fact I've got my on email list going to the gun owners where I work. About 20 strong now.

However, on the polls: The one on Nov. 7 is the one that counts, but a trend in polls is a good predicter of out come. The only thing I feel, is in ceratain states, anything showing Gore up 3 or less could easily be a Bush victory b/c of NRA numbers/influence alone.

Your MMM idea as you explain is quite plausable. Million members with only 1k writting congress. Would probably do more to undermine them than help them. Turns my stomach to think about joining. Hummmmmm. Have you joined yet?

madison/rolltr

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bartholomew Roberts:
Well, the idea needs more scrutiny - I'll admit - however, the power of the NRAs numbers is because its members DO write their representatives and get active in elections.

We wouldn't be adding to the MMMs numbers any because we wouldn't be supporting any agenda that conflicts with the RKBA. For example, if the MMM reports 100,000 members but only 1,000 ever write their Congressman - then does anybody on the Hill really care what MMM thinks?

The reason the NRA has power is not because they say they have 4 million members but because Congress knows from past experience that those members will be active politically.

Bush has some time yet. It is too bad he is behind in PA though becuase that is a state that he could really use. Just remember though - the only poll that means anything is the one on November 7th.

Whatever happens, don't let the media beat you down (or our gun owning friends who are less active) into believing your vote doesn't count.[/quote]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madison46:
Hummmmmm. Have you joined yet?[/quote]

No, still turning the plan over in my head and looking for flaws in it. I probably will contact them regardless and see if I can talk sense into any of them.
 
LOL. No offense to the female gun owners here at TFL, but Bart, remember that you are trying to talk logic to the gender that is more emotional that logical. That alone could be the fatal flaw of your plan :-)

My wife the during an argument other day accused me of not supporting her decision to stay home with the kids and 5 minutes later I wasn't supportive of her military career. Go figure. In about 3 days I will bring it up and she will probably laugh, but untill then, logic is out the window.

Logic ? big smile.

madison/rolltr

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bartholomew Roberts:
No, still turning the plan over in my head and looking for flaws in it. I probably will contact them regardless and see if I can talk sense into any of them.

[/quote]
 
Womens groups were to a large extent responsible for the Prohibition movement. Ultimately, they lost. The MMM has already lost momentum. This upcoming election is far more important.
 
tuc22,

Very true about women and prohibition. Very true.

madison

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tuc22:
Womens groups were to a large extent responsible for the Prohibition movement. Ultimately, they lost. The MMM has already lost momentum. This upcoming election is far more important.[/quote]
 
I "joined" before I got married but gave them my parent's house as my address and phone number (didn't have any other.) When my little sister answered the phone and heard that the MMM wanted to talk to someone in OUR house, she decided it made no sense and told the woman I died. So I guess I'm not technically a member anymore.
Keep thinking I'll "join" again but I never get around to it. If nothing else, they waste time, money and postage on you.
 
Hey, Hey not bad. Too bad we can't get lots of bogus addresses to drive up their postage costs.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Don Gwinn:
I "joined" before I got married but gave them my parent's house as my address and phone number (didn't have any other.) When my little sister answered the phone and heard that the MMM wanted to talk to someone in OUR house, she decided it made no sense and told the woman I died. So I guess I'm not technically a member anymore.
Keep thinking I'll "join" again but I never get around to it. If nothing else, they waste time, money and postage on you.[/quote]
 
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