Elimination of S&W magazine disconnect/safety

S

SNAPCUT

Inactive
I am not a fan of mag disconnects/safeties. If I recall, this feature can be eliminated by moving the rear sight and removing the plastic ejector plunger and spring from the slide. Am I correct, and will this interfere with the pistol's reliability in any way?
 
The plunger and spring under the rear sight bear down on the ejector. When the magazine is removed, the plunger forces the ejector to pivot downward and disconnect the trigger bar, preventing the gun from firing.

Yes, you can remove the steel (not plastic) plunger the way you describe. But if anything bad happens as a result, you could be in deep doo-doo.

Jim
 
I'm pretty sure the steel plunger on the slide's right side operates the firing-pin safety. The plastic plunger on the slide's left is the mag disconnect. BTW, I don't think it's referred to as a mag safety, though I could be wrong.:)
 
Nice try, VL. But S&W calls it a safety and that's the generally accepted description. ;)

There are pros and cons to disconnecting the safety.

Pro: you can shoot without a mag in place, allowing for the weapon to be operable during a reload.

Cons: the safety is an added "kill switch" during a retention/disarm scenario; people who don't know to put a mag in or at least pull the mag out before playing with it are less likely to shoot an innocent; if there is ever a scenario involving use of this firearm, disconnecting the safety may (emphasis on may) come in as evidence of negligence or reckless indifference; and, if there is an accidental shooting, disconnecting the safety probably will come in.

I don't like mag safeties on Browning as it screws with the trigger pull. But weighing pros and cons, I would leave it in. If you do take it out, be sure you have the ability to justify why you did it, beyond "I don't like them."
 
Thanks to all for your replies. I am a Police Officer, and one of my agency's firearms instructors and armorers. Personal preferences aside, I feel that magazine disconnects contribute to poor/unsafe gun handling skills. I am of the belief that there is no such thing as a safety. Guns fire when one pulls the trigger. If we all remember that, we will put fewer holes in fewer objects unintentionally. In my experience, the vast majority of Law Enforcement personnel are not terribly familiar with firearms. Having them try to recall which guns fire with or without magazines is a risky proposition. Remember also that many agencies have ordered their S&W without the mag disconnect; from the FBI on down. A large agency in my area recently transitioned to H&K USPs from S&W 5903s. They had always removed the magazines from their weapons when handling prisoners. They were taught for years that this "deactivated" the weapon. Guess what? They are still doing it with their H&Ks! They have been taught otherwise, but their old habits are sticking. Ideally, they should be intensely retrained and monitored, but that is indeed only an ideal. I suppose that we all have to choose what is best for our needs.
 
SNAPCUT - I would be very careful about removing anything the manufacturer included and describes as a "safety," magazine or otherwise. Given the litigiousness of our modern society, an AD by any one of the officers on your force resulting in injury or death opens up a Pandora's Box of liability for both you as armorer and your department; not to mention the municipality or county governments under which you operate.
 
SNAPCUT has certainly given quite enough evidence for the view that all auto pistols should be removed from police use and revolvers re-issued!

Jim
 
SNAPCUT, that's an excellent example of how we revert to our training, whether good or bad. They should have stuck to S&W weapons or had some serious transitional training.
 
You gentlemen have once again reminded me why I particpate in these forums. It is good to know that there are knowledgeable and reasonable folks here with whom I can discuss ideas. In my original post, I was referring to a personal S&W firearm. I transitioned my agency from S&W 4046s to H&K USP45s with (fingers crossed) no problems thus far. Serious training is indeed the key to the prevention of unintentional discharges. As for revolvers, I would be happy to have my agency so equipped. If I could obtain the required number of S&W Model 58s at the right cost, I'd pitch it to my Chief today. Do you think that the Performance Center would create and build for me some "Model 658s"?
 
I don't know, but I do know that some police agencies that used to emphasize training when the cops only had six, now seem to rely on the street cops having a lot of ammo so learning to shoot is no big thing. Bad thinking - it is usually the first one or two that count; the number of rounds left in the magazine does not count if the hand holding the gun is cold.

Just one piece of advice. Do as you want with your own pistol, at your own risk. But if you are ever ordered to make ANY changes on, or remove ANY safety device from, ANY issue gun, get it in writing from at least the Chief if not the Mayor (or whatever the elected official is the big boss). Otherwise, if something bad happens due to that change, the white shirts will go into the denial mode and hang you out to dry for "unauthorized tampering" with the guns. You could be looking at manslaughter or negligent homicide and a whole bunch of big dollar judgements without any support because some klutz didn't know how to handle the gun you "fixed".

Jim
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top