ejector swipes, primers normal?

S

Shadow9mm

New member
Hey, So I worked up some 223 loads the other day with CFE223 and CCI standard small rifle primers. I ran up to the max of 27.4g per the hornady manual. 16" barrel, mid length gas. 5.56 chamber

The primers were slightly flattened on the surface, however there was no cratering, and the edged were still rounded, not flowed out. It did have light ejector swipes. There was no swipe at 27.2g.

The day was cooler when I tested. Being that CFE223 is no the most temperature stable powder, I don't want to work it up now and have problems this summer. I was planning to put the ammo in my lunch pail next time to keep it from getting cold.

How much stock should I be putting in the ejector swipes, vs the primers looking normal? Sorry no pix, I hope to test again next week and will get some then if there are any swipes.
 
If case brass has been pressured into extrusion in the ejector cut-out slot, the pressure was too high for the case.
(Notwithstanding any primer conditions)

What brass manufacturer ?
 
Ejector wipes and up on the high end says drop it down 5/10. Only reason I don't say any is I am not familiar with gas guns and ejector wipes. If it was a bolt its no questions asked, duck and cover.

As it gets warmer it gets worse even in temp stable powders, they just don't jack it up as much.
 
RC20 said:
Ejector wipes and up on the high end says drop it down 5/10. Only reason I don't say any is I am not familiar with gas guns and ejector wipes. If it was a bolt its no questions asked, duck and cover.

As it gets warmer it gets worse even in temp stable powders, they just don't jack it up as much.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by 5/10, you mean 0.5g I presume?
 
five tenths
1/2 grain

Being cold when you tested, I'd personally drop a full grain
to build in some hot margin.... with that brass.
 
mehavey said:
five tenths
1/2 grain

Being cold when you tested, I'd personally drop a full grain
to build in some hot margin.... with that brass.
Click to expand...
Ok. when I did my testing I tried 27.4, 27.2, 27.0. for 27.2 down no swipes visible.

I loaded up another test batch. same string, 27.4, 27.2, 27.0

My plan is to keep the mags inside my jacket, so its on the warmer side. then straight into the gun to test. Loaded 3rnds for each charge weight. gonna test just 1 at a time and look for signs. The loads are direct from the hornady manual for 223, and I have a 5.56 chamber gun so they should be more than ok. Also going to fire a coupe factory 5.56 to see how they look for comparison.

Will take pix for comparison.
 
Are they smears like this

Jop6o4.jpg


Or brass flow into the ejector port like this , ignore the arrow and look at the upper right case . Note the circle around the 1 of the 14 . That was bras flow into the ejector port . Sorry about the clarity

Yglhxm.jpg
 
I'm not speaking as an authority here. Jus my opinion.
Its worth looking at primers and case heads for "sign". Yellow flags,red flags,etc. But there is no calibrated instrument there.

Some scuff on the face of the brass could be made during feeding by a sharp edge on the bolt face around the extractor. Or maybe your ejector is getting sticky.

But there is a round hole in your bolt face for the ejector. If the brass extrudes into that round hole,yes,you have unacceptable pressure . Typically,that extrusion gets sheared or scraped off as the bolt rotates out of battery.
Thats easy to recognize if you see it. There may be fine crescent shaped brass scrapings as a result. Those can enter the ejector hole and foul the ejector.

If those things are happening,you are too hot.Maybe the bass is unusually soft.

Here is a lesson I have learned. Published loads CAN be too hot. But I'm skeptical anything dramatic will happen using correct components and a published tested load.

Here is the price you will pay if your5.56 or 223 loads are hot.

The case heads are not overly strong around the primer pockets. Loading hot will give you loose primer pockets.

Once you lose a lot of about 500 rounds of brass to loose pockets after 2 or 3 loadings the attraction of another 75 or 100 fps is replaced with "How can get more loads out of my brass?"
Especially if you buy new,virgin brass.
Load small lots till you are sure the pockets hold up
 
We need photos to get a better idea. LC case heads are hard, but something like MG's second photo can happen because the ejector body stands a bit proud of the bolt face and may mean little by itself. I've seen it occur even with moderate loads in some guns with some brass (though I can't recall which brass, off the top of my head).
 
Ok, so I think I'm good. I checked my heads before firing and found some already had ejector swipes. After firing, there were no new marks. Primers are flattened, but not flowed, no cratering. I thing the ejector swipes I was seeing were there from a previous firing.

Need to do some more testing in relation to warmer temps. It was only 25f out when I tested. I did put the ammo in a cooler with a hot water bottle to try and keep it as warm as I could to help make sure it will be ok as CFE223 is not the most temperature stable.
 
@OP: LC is tuff stuff--I assume you swaged/turned the primer pockets if it's 5.56/nato marked? Any signs of unusual expansion in case diameter dimensions in the head area? While it could simply be a stiff bolt or a loose-side chamber, it's still something of concern to me when I see those signs that something isn't right. What was your bullet and COL? The only max 27.4 gr CFE 233 charge I find in the hornady manual is for 223 rem, so there is that if you're using the thicker LC 5.56 case. However, I just ran the numbers through QL and it looks to me like Hornady's max charges stay well within max pressure, though it is a highly compressed charge if you are following their COL's. Call me superstitious, but I stay away from compressed charges as a personal rule.
 
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yes. Hornady load data, with Hornady bullets, to Hornady COL, with light crimp from a lee factory crimp die. Casings were resized with RCBS small base dies, fired in a 5.56 spec ar platform rifle.

As far as compressed. Hornady does not seems to specify. I generally try to avoid compressed loads. Based on the case fill, it looked like the base might be close to, or touching the powder but I was not anticipating any compression.

hand loads 3 shot tests

hand load, 55g hrn fmj
27.0 avg 2875, sd 75.02
27.2 avg 2867, sd 49.90
27.4 avg, 2888, sd 76.27

hand load 55g hrn sp
27.0 avg 2854, sd 90.14
27.2 avg 2872, sd 27.43
27.4 avg 2910, sd 49.00

factory loads 5rnd tests

PMC 223, 55g AVG 2930, sd 34.43
win 5.56, ??g, avg 3054, sd 23.96
FC 223, ??gg avg 2917, sd 16.08
black hills 77g otm, avg 2756, sd 13.04


Here here are my handloads (silver cci primers), left to right 27.0, 27.2, 27.4
attachment.php


Here are factory loads. left to right, blach hills 77g otm, fc 55g 223, win 5.56, PMC 223 fired same gun same day for comparison purposes.
attachment.php
 

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And for more fun, my 30-06 load workup fell flat as well.

Hornady 150g interlock BT and FMJ BT.
Both loaded to hornady COL with hornady data.
CCI primers RP cases.

Hornady shows a max of 60.g
Wester shows a max of 59.9 for the Hrn fmjbt 150g, at the same COL, 3.185, western does not list this as a compressed load.

I got to 57.7 with the SP, started cratering
I got to 58.9 with the fmj, started cratering

Keep in mind, this rifle has flattened EVERY primer for every cartridge I have ever put in it, factory, or starting hand load. It is TC Compass with a 21.625in barrel.

attachment.php


The last one for each just started to crater, the ones prior looked fine
attachment.php


1rnd tests, working up towards max, looking for pressure signs
150g SP
55.3 2888fps
55.9 2905 fps
56.5 2956 fps
57.1 2984fps
57.7 3028 fps minimally cratered primer, stopped

150g FMJ-BT
55.3 2931fps
55.9 2896 fps
56.5 2909 fps
57.1 2981 fps
58.3 3015 fps
58.9 3078 fps minimally crated primer, stopped
 

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Shadow9mm said:
Hey, So I worked up some 223 loads the other day with CFE223 and CCI standard small rifle primers. I ran up to the max of 27.4g per the hornady manual. 16" barrel, mid length gas. 5.56 chamber

The primers were slightly flattened on the surface, however there was no cratering, and the edged were still rounded, not flowed out. It did have light ejector swipes. There was no swipe at 27.2g.
Click to expand...

CCI 400 -thin .020" cup, not recommended for AR15 use by CCI/Speer.
 
well, that's less than ideal... Just called CCI to verify. Apparently this is due to the possibility of a slamfire. They said point hte gun in a safe direction(at a range), from bolt lock drop the bolt to chamber a cartridge. If there is any significant indentation from the firing pin, do not use. Mine have a tiney mark, nothing significat. have been using CCI 400 in my AR for a while with no issue. will switch to 41 or 450 if and or when primers become available again...

CCI recommended #41 or #450 for AR's. Apparently they are both magnum primer (thicker cups with more priming compound) and the #41 had the angle of the anvil changed to prevent slamfires...

have been using CCI 400 in my AR for a while with no issue. will switch to 41 or 450 if and or when primers become available again...
 
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