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Ejecting live rounds?
- Thread starter ADIDAS69
- Start date
Aguila Blanca
Staff
It could be that the mechanism loses control of the next round as it feeds, so it ejects the empty case and the next round together.
That is my understanding as well.I have a magazine that "ejects" the last round in it, when the next to the last round fires, and is ejected, both the empty and the last live round come out of the gun.
"Ejecting live rounds" is a fairly serious defect.
When a round is fired, the empty cartridge case is extracted and ejected AND, at some point in the extraction/ejection/feeding process, the top round in the magazine pops up and out of the gun (is ejected) instead of ending up in the chamber as it should.
Got it, thanks. It’s also the queerest thing I’ve ever heard. I own or have owned firearms from up and down the price point scales and have never ever experienced this issue. It seems like a failure you’d have to purposely engineer. Maybe they got some POS springs in the mags or maybe the mag shifts during firing positioning the the round too low or high?
armoredman
New member
Only pistol I ever had that did this was a Jennings J-22, about 35 years ago.
When a round is fired, the empty cartridge case is extracted and ejected AND, at some point in the extraction/ejection/feeding process, the top round in the magazine pops up and out of the gun (is ejected) instead of ending up in the chamber as it should.
I have never heard of that happening, nor have I experienced it.
Pretty serious stuff there, we don't like any malfunctions and we don't want to loose loaded rounds either.
Mackie244Bud
New member
Well we all know that they are talking abpout the new Sig Sauer Contract.
I saw this:
Here is an article on the subject:
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/02/01/the-army-is-working-to-fix-flaws-in-its-new-handgun-after-critical-dod-report/
Per these incidents there is no mention of how many rounds or what specific ammo has been used other than ball ammo.
I have mainly used Federal American Eagle and Blazer Brass 124g FMJ through my P320.
So I do wish they were more forthcoming as to exactly what ammo and grain the Army uses.
I have had my P320 Compact RX for about a year and at least 1500 rounds through it and I have yet to experience ANY malfunction or hiccup as is the same with the buying public!
The Army did say:
Whatever the problems are I can't imagine it would take Sig that long to figure out what is happening...
It's their gun and not rocket-science!
Thanks to the Army's rigorous testing and use it will only make the P320 a even better gun!
As a P320 owner it's something to keep a eye on.
Mackie244 / Bud
I saw this:
The Pentagon report noted the following problems:
1)Double ejections of an unspent ball ammunition round along with a spent round during firing.
2) A higher number of stoppages experienced by shooters with both the XM17 and XM18 handguns when fired with ball ammunition as compared to the special purpose ammunition.
3) Both weapons failed to meet the Mean Rounds Between Stoppage reliability requirement with ball ammunition.
4) Two trigger-splintering incidents that officials believe were related to an engineering change made by Sig Sauer to correct a drop test deficiency in which testers saw the weapon fire when dropped.
5) More than half of the stoppages reported were likely caused by use of the Army Marksmanship Unit’s “high pistol grip” method, which can result in the shooter engaging the slide catch lever and cause the slide not to lock in the rear position.
Here is an article on the subject:
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/02/01/the-army-is-working-to-fix-flaws-in-its-new-handgun-after-critical-dod-report/
Per these incidents there is no mention of how many rounds or what specific ammo has been used other than ball ammo.
I have mainly used Federal American Eagle and Blazer Brass 124g FMJ through my P320.
So I do wish they were more forthcoming as to exactly what ammo and grain the Army uses.
I have had my P320 Compact RX for about a year and at least 1500 rounds through it and I have yet to experience ANY malfunction or hiccup as is the same with the buying public!
The Army did say:
Military testing standards far exceed civilian wear and tear and are costly, he said. For that reason, there are not a lot of industry testing comparisons.
David Bahde, a retired SWAT lieutenant and firearms subject matter expert who has testified in federal court proceedings on firearms issues, provided some context on the scale of the reported problems.
“To my knowledge, no small arm fielded by the military has passed from the testing to the issuing phase without issues,” Bahde said.
Whatever the problems are I can't imagine it would take Sig that long to figure out what is happening...
It's their gun and not rocket-science!
Thanks to the Army's rigorous testing and use it will only make the P320 a even better gun!
As a P320 owner it's something to keep a eye on.
Mackie244 / Bud
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Aguila Blanca
Staff
If the military says just "ball" ammo, that means standard issue for combat operations. I'm pretty certain that's 9mm NATO, which is 124-grain +P.Mackie244Bud said:Per these incidents there is no mention of how many rounds or what specific ammo has been used other than ball ammo.
I have mainly used Federal American Eagle and Blazer Brass 124g FMJ through my P320.
So I do wish they were more forthcoming as to exactly what ammo and grain the Army uses.
Considering that most shooters under the age of 60 (and many over that age) now shoot with a thumbs-foward grip, it's unfair to characterize that hold as something peculiar to the AMU, and it's idiotic to design a pistol today with the controls laid out such that shooting high-thumbs or thumbs-forward could cause a stoppage.Report said:5) More than half of the stoppages reported were likely caused by use of the Army Marksmanship Unit’s “high pistol grip” method, which can result in the shooter engaging the slide catch lever and cause the slide not to lock in the rear position.
If the military says just "ball" ammo, that means standard issue for combat operations. I'm pretty certain that's 9mm NATO, which is 124-grain +P.
The report snipped I read on another site mentioned 115 gr FMJ, which was weird to me.
My hypothesis? It's not solely grip related. The contract was speced for a 147 gr JHP. If I had to guess SIG designed the recoil spring around that particular load to have the least felt recoil possible for the trial. Then throw in some weaker ammo and things change.
I'd also point out that the majority of the stoppages happened with only a few shooters. It's not out of the realm of possibility that people might ride the slick release, causing the failures to lock back that were mentioned. Heck, SIG even added that little shelf around the slide release of the P320 just for that original problem. My guess is the added recoil of the "special" ammo helps mitigate the issue to an extent.
gbclarkson
New member
Sorry for diverting from the OP's question but what is "trigger splintering"?
4) Two trigger-splintering incidents that officials believe were related to an engineering change made by Sig Sauer to correct a drop test deficiency in which testers saw the weapon fire when dropped.
Mackie244Bud
New member
As far as the Trigger-Splintering the article states:
Wow, makes you wonder what happened to those two P320's?
What'd they do run them over with a truck or tank! LOL!
Mackie244 / Bud
Officials also said the two trigger-splintering incidents were “not the result of a design flaw or ongoing manufacturing problem.”
Those were the only two pistols out of an estimated 10,000 purchased that have exhibited that issue.
Wow, makes you wonder what happened to those two P320's?
What'd they do run them over with a truck or tank! LOL!
Mackie244 / Bud
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RAfiringline
New member
>listed as “ejecting live rounds”<
"Ejecting" like it's double cycling without firing the second (live) round?
Isn't it more likely a magazine problem in which the mag lips and/or mag spring is popping the live round out in a way that it sometimes doesn't get cycled into the chamber, but gets flipped out of the action.?
"Ejecting" like it's double cycling without firing the second (live) round?
Isn't it more likely a magazine problem in which the mag lips and/or mag spring is popping the live round out in a way that it sometimes doesn't get cycled into the chamber, but gets flipped out of the action.?
A cursory check thru the googles indicates the Army is using M882 ammo for the old M9 but the weight of the bullet seems to be a bit of a controversy.
This site says the bullet weight is 112 grains.
http://olive-drab.com/od_firearms_ammo_9mm.php
These guys say 124 and everything EXCEPT 147 for M882.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/M882_confusion/20-167330/?
Here's an article that says the U.S. Army has authorized 147 grain 9mm for special mission units.
It also says:Matt Walker, deputy of the Lethality Branch at the Army's Maneuver Center of Excellence at Fort Benning, Ga.
The Beretta rep, Gabriele De Plano, vice president of military marketing and sales for Beretta USA said:
Walker allowed as how this is true.
https://www.military.com/daily-news...point-ammo-for-new-pistol-not-for-the-m9.html
The odd thing I got out of this is that it was not easy to find out the bullet weight given you had an actual ammunition type, that is, M882.
This site says the bullet weight is 112 grains.
http://olive-drab.com/od_firearms_ammo_9mm.php
These guys say 124 and everything EXCEPT 147 for M882.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/M882_confusion/20-167330/?
Here's an article that says the U.S. Army has authorized 147 grain 9mm for special mission units.
It also says:Matt Walker, deputy of the Lethality Branch at the Army's Maneuver Center of Excellence at Fort Benning, Ga.
he [Walker] knows of no plans to allow conventional combat units to use readily-available hollow-point ammo in the current M9 service pistol. Walker said it was not his decision, but added that he didn't think the Beretta M9 "is optimized to shoot any of those types of rounds. It's optimized to shoot the M882," the U.S. military's standard full-metal jacket 9mm round, he said.
The Beretta rep, Gabriele De Plano, vice president of military marketing and sales for Beretta USA said:
The M9 design is owned by the Army and their specifications are to the M882 round," De Plano said. "From our experience, our pistol works extremely well with all types of jacketed hollow-points and other ammo available to the law enforcement and civilian market.
Walker allowed as how this is true.
https://www.military.com/daily-news...point-ammo-for-new-pistol-not-for-the-m9.html
The odd thing I got out of this is that it was not easy to find out the bullet weight given you had an actual ammunition type, that is, M882.