Economical vs Higher End Rifles

J

Jimms

Inactive
Being in the new market for a new hunting rifle, I have been looking a quite a few different brands. I have a really nice M70 in 330wsm with a SS barrel, but would like to get a 308 for when I am back east.

Brands I have been looking at: T/C, Savage, Win, Ruger, and FN. Now I know that Win's and FN TSR XP are essentially the same, and the mechanics of Win's are definitely the same. I will be putting a Houge stock on it, fully bedded, because to me, guns are a tool, and I don't mind them getting beat up.

So that brings us to the other 3. T/C, Savage, and Ruger. All 3 of these companies have a really nice $900 gun. And they also have a $400 gun.

So it makes me ask: if the guns are essentially the same, why would YOU spend the extra money on the nicer gun?
 
T/C, Savage, and Ruger. All 3 of these companies have a really nice $900 gun. And they also have a $400 gun
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The low priced guns will shoot sometimes even better then the more expensive. When you buy the more expensive you are paying extra for finish (deeper blueing, more polishing better wood to metal fit etc) but both will shoot bullets.

SOME of the cheaper rifles function just as well as the more expensive. OTHER cheap rifles are just junk and not reliable. I'm betting the new Ruger American will be reliable for example. The Savage Axis does the job.
 
+1 what Warbirdlover said.

If spend $1500 on a bolt rifle, and $800 on a scope, you are practically garunteed to get a nice rifle. Even the stuff that over-priced is still quite nice. It is not junk, not by a long sight.

But if you want to buy a $400 bolt rifle and a $200 scope, you have to be smart and well informed to end up with a nice shooting rifle.

In my humble opinion, the synthetic stock offerings from Savage (with accu-trigger), Tika, and Weatherby vanguard are the best of the low priced bolt rifles.... best accuracy for the money.
 
timex or rolex? both do the job. one does it with more style. one does it with money still in your pocket.
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And one you can get a loan on in the future if you spend all the money in your pocket............:) That goes for the watches also....:)
 
I'd buy the Ruger if I were you. They are more mid-priced, but with higher end features. Plus it is similar in operation to the Winchester you already have which is something important to me. For just a little more you could just go ahead and get another Winchester in a model 70 just like the one you have. There are no aftermarket stocks available for some of the choices you are considering.

Come to think of it I'd just buy this one and call it done since you are already used to Winchester.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...++1+308+Win.+Ultimate+Shadow22"+BarrelComposi

It already comes with a MUCH better synthetic stock than a Hogue and will save you about $250. The factory plastic Ruger stock is a much better stock than the Hogue, and some even come with a Hogue from the factory if you insist on Hogue.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...s_id/42483/Ruger+HKM77RFP+HAWKEYE+BOLT+308+SS

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/..._id/49830/Ruger+HM77RBH+30-06+BRN+HOG+SYNMTSS

A couple of reasons to avoid low end guns. many shoot just as well as high end guns, but most don't have some important features I'm interested in. Some just don't hold up well from long term harsh use like the better guns.

The second reason is long term value. The higher and mid priced guns will depreciate for a few years, but after a time will actually appreciate in value and will reach a point where they are worth more than you paid. Often by large amounts. Many of the cheaper guns are simply disosable. They often shoot great, right with much more expensive guns, but are simply worthless at trade in time or for future sale. If you got a brand new Remington 770 for Christmas and have never fired it. None of the local gun or pawn shops will give you a dime for it. Their shelves are already full of used ones priced around $150 that they can't move.
 
I have a savage axis I got a crazy deal on, and it's a decent rifle. My only complaint is the trigger is heavy, but it's an easy fix.
 
I know that everything comes down to personal preference, but what does everyone have against Hogue rubber overmold stocks.

I really like them, because they really fit my hands well. I feel like I have smaller hands, so the grip and forearm fit me well. And you can beat the crap out of it. But I would only get a fully bedded one.
 
Jimms, I have a Hogue (fully bedded) stock on my Ruger 223. I like everything about it, but it is a bit heavy. That would be my only minor complaint.
 
I've been asking the same question all my life. I like wood, but can live without looking at it very much. The new .25-06 and .308 Marlin XL7S or XS7S is made just for me, and I'll add a Nikon Prostaff 3-9X40 and 4-12X40 on top.

-7-
 
I have a low end budget, and I am a garage gunsmith. I have currently a Rem 700 in .223, a basic package gun at the time I bought it. I put a match trigger kit in it, have done nothing else except shoot it about 4000 times and it still does 1/2 to 3/4 groups depending on the ammo and wind.

Savage 111 in .270 bought last summer, the cheap package version. I installed a Rifle Basix trigger, Boyd's laminate stock, last week shot a 5/8" group with 150gr SST handloads.

Mossberg 100ATR in 243 I bought a few years ago as a truck gun. It served that purpose and took the hits for the team.:rolleyes: It has become my project gun that I mess with to see if I can improve its accuracy. There are no aftermarket triggers for that model so I reworked the 6# gritty draggy trigger and got a smooth 2 1/4# smooth trigger with minimal creep. Have replaced the CHEAP plastic stock that came on it with a Boyd's laminate. It originally shot 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups, basic hunting accuracy or minute of coyote to 250 yds or so. With the improvements and handloads in now is 1" or slightly better on a good day.

If you will never do any improvements and plan to keep it for your kids,find a gun and price that feels good to you and go for it.

If you may want to upgrade it or sell or trade it some day, take a look at the aftermarket upgrade and general repair parts available for Rem 700 and the Savage 10/110 compared to other models. Look in gun parts at Cabela's or Midway USA and Boyd's or other gunstock makers, and you will notice they are dominated by Rem 700 and Savage 10/110. Then notice the value on used ones. I am pretty sure I could sell my 8-9 yr old Rem or my Savage 111 for as much as I have in them or more. The Mossberg, which is more in the class of the Axis/Rem 770/ and other low end guns and while it is now a pretty nice looking and shooting gun its probably worth $150-200 and cannot get much better than it is without spending some significant money on it.

Based on the experiences above I would look hard at the Rem700 or Savage/Stevens. The base models are not much more that the "cheap" rifles and can be used that way or upgraded if and when you wish to. I bought the base package Savage last summer, added the good stock and trigger of my choice for about $200. Or I could have paid the extra 200 or so at the store and gotten a comparable gun ie accutrigger and accustock or wood stock.

Hope this rambling is helpful.
 
Although I don't have one currently, the Ruger 77 probably runs a close 3rd to Rem 700 and Savage for aftermarket upgrade options.
 
Is this going to be a shooting rifle or a look at rifle. If it is for shooting i would go with the Savage for sure. The triggers are stiff,but you get used to them fast.
They are not the prettiest things in the world,but out of the box and with reloads you just can't beat them. Tikas are very nice i have heard also.
 
We live in the golden age of rifles, when just about anyone can afford a sub MOA factory gun. It was not long ago you could spend a fortune and still not get sub MOA. In my mind, the extra money buys you 'pride of ownership' (outstanding fit and finish, fine wood, polished interior parts, etc.), and intangibles such as smoothness of action and general feel.

You may also consider the Weatherby Vanguard S2, which retails for $449 (I asked for a price break and they sold it to me for $429). If you like two stage triggers, this might float your boat. And they come from the factory with a One MOA guarantee.
 
You might want to steer clear of Remington products until they sort out their quality control problems. TC recalled Ventures for trigger sear issues, so you may not be able to find one in a store for some time. I called the factory and they could not tell me when they would have the fixed rifles back to retailers.
 
One thing I have noticed on here, with the lower priced models, is that they sell, but often people have post like, Wont feed the last round, or jam, or part fell off, or are there any after market parts available for this gun ?

But they work well eneough for the average shooter.
The higher end models hold their value better, and seem to be less problematic. Sometimes a person just has to get what they can afford, but all too often people like to bash the more expensive models, sometimes I think its due to jealousy.:D
 
I get in the same arguement with my Buddies at the GunRange when they tease me about some of my more expensive rifles and riflescopes,,,and I simply invite them out to the parking lot!

No we don't get in a duel or a fistfight,,,I simply show them my Subaru that I paid cash for and has 250 thousand miles on it with very few repairs and then we look at their brand new four wheel drive club cab pickups that they paid 30 to 40 thousand dollars for and I point at their pickup and tell them there is my gun collection!

Sure a $400 to $500 dollar rifle in some cases might be as accurate and reliable as a custom rifle,,,and sometimes a $200 scope will get the job done,,,and I certainly understand and appreciate if you make those choices,,,however a Tac-Ops rifle is guaranteed to shoot into 1/4 inch at 100 yards,,,a GA Precision rifle is guaranteed to shoot into 3/8 inch at 100 yards and a Sako TRG rifle is guaranteed to shoot into 1/2 inch or less at 100 yards,,,sure all of them will cost you north of 3 grand and you will have to wait to get the Tac Ops or GA Precision as they cannot keep up with the orders for them,, and you could have bought six of the cheaper rifles or used the difference in price to buy a good scope and a lot of ammo,,,so the arguement is correct either way,,,it's your money,, spend it however it makes you happy!
 
I'm all about the low end/mid range rifles these days.

I've had high end wood/blued beauties that were no more accurate than my cheapies and a couple were flat out awefull in the accuracy dept.

Hunting is tough on guns---I've babied, I mean BABIED high end rifles and they still come out all scratched up or worn in some way.

My current rifles are a TC Venture(at SW for recall--even though I never had a lick of trouble with it) and a stainless Ruger Hawkeye------both are very accurate and rugged--------The TC will probably go bye bye just because the stainless Ruger does everything just a little bit better and is more compact----both are chambered in .30-06. $350 for the TC last year---$500 for the Hawkeye this year---both NIB.

Life's too short to be babying rifles-----spend the extra you would have spent on a high-end rifle on a better scope----think Zeiss and Swarovski.
 
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I installed a Hogue overmolded stock on my M 70 in .243. I bought the cheaper one with pillar bedding only. I love it and it reduced the groups from 1.5 to 3/4 inch with commercial ammo. As someone pointed out, they are a bit heavy but besides reducing the groups the recoil now feels like my .22.:D

My problem with really beautiful wood is that I am afraid of damaging it. Probably 8 or 9 years ago I bought a Rem 11-87 premier at an estate sale. The thing was still in the box and it appeared unfired. I owned it for 3 years w/o firing a shot or taking it hunting until I bought a camo sleeve for it and finally took it hunting.

The o/p questioned the difference between high end/lower end models from the same company. I have a T/C Venture (purchased well before the sale of the company). It has been a great gun from the 1st shot. I have a lot of trouble believing that their 'high end' model could be that much better than the Venture.
 
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