ECHELON Global Surveillance Network???

RPM

New member
Check out these sites:
http://fire.net.nz/echelon.htm
http://dir.yahoo.com/Government/Intelligence/Echelon_Network/

I can't decide whether this is another wacko conspiracy theory or truth. Supposedly, the government also uses it to keep tabs on gunowners. All intercepted material is searched using keywords and anyone talking about certain things(guns, terrorism, etc) is flagged for surveillance. Does this sound like crap? I really can't decide one way or another.
 
All,

Please read these articles!

You know I am not a “conspiracy freak”, but consider:

- The NSA has a mission of “signals intelligence and communications security”.

- When Gorbachev explained that the Cold War was over, he smiled and asked Colin
Powell (then Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff), “What are you going to do now that
you have lost your best enemy?”

- Good question! Which do you think is more likely?

a. NSA closed up shop and went home when the USSR ceased to exist.

b. The feather-merchants of NSA scrambled to find (even *create*) other “threats” - both internal and external - to the American Way of Life, to justify further expansion of their efforts and *necessary* surveillance of these *new and dangerous* threats.

(If you picked “a”, I apologize for bothering you. Go back to your “I Love Lucy” reruns.)

The facility at NSA is *incredibly* larger now than in 1968 when I was stationed there. I would guess it is, well, at least five times larger!
------

There are a few inconsistencies in the articles. For example, the existence of NSA was NOT "a secret until a few years ago". NSA has been the biggest tenant at Fort George Meade (between Washington & Baltimore) since I don’t know when. My transfer orders to NSA in 1968 were not classified.

- There is some hyperbole to the articles. I don’t know how much because I’ve been out
of the business for 20 years.

- NSA’s complete mission obviously is classified. Therefore, a lot of the article is educated guesswork. But I’ll bet it’s close enough to give some NSA folks the willies.

In spite of probable minor errors, I see no reason NOT to believe the thrust of these articles.

Your tax dollars at work. (More than that, I won’t say.)

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited August 15, 1999).]
 
RPM..

It exists, that is without question. As to whether or not its also used to keep tabs on gunowners as some official policy...I doubt it.
You have to remember, that puters/software can pick up key words, flag a particular message as warranting scrutiny...then, some human has to actually read it. Given the absolutely unimaginable amount of electronic information flying around, they can't do that...not enough manpower to read everything.

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
The by product of my work in the navy and when i went overseas working on civilian contracts went to that agency. I was a cryptographer way back when, and while i havent read these articles, DC is correct from my experience with the incredible number of electronic communications it is impossible for every msg to be word for word copied, so they use key words---such as looking for drugs they might put in such words as the drug guy's name/nickname, his contacts, boatname, plane name,etc, and of course the prerequisite coke, blow, snow,(these are just examples), etc etc,,,,but they also prioritize those names depending upon the significance to them. While there resourses are vast, even they can be overwhelmed by too much information to sift through.
As a side note, the military had their version of the internet years before it was publically known, and as related to me by my father who spent his entire career in sf/military intelligence, that at the war college back in the 60's everyone thought it was neat when they rolled in a keyboard and plugged it in to the wall to make changes to the info on that wall, as well as a neat little pen that they could touch thinks on the screen and move to a different place on the screen. Kinda sounds like the technology that has filtered out over the last 20 yrs or so....,
there resources have to be utilized were the best pay off is, they can not afford to waste it on low priority, that dosent mean the prioritys cant change and that vast and very impressive information gathering apparatus cant be focused on a once non or low priority situation....If your also wondering if the satellite survelliance is any good, yes it was surprising back then and i suppose they have become better 18 or so years later....
..now before ya'll get up in arms about anything ive said I will tell you that nothing ive spoken about is classified, there have been documentaries on tv which were suprisingly accureate from my memories and several books written that ive read over the years that are factual-----now how they stayed out of jail I dont know, I do know that after the publication of a particular book we changed procedures overnight...I just cant remember the title or author..

Dennis,
Did you ever know that traitor Walker either sr or jr? My father as is his habit/training verifies infomation and made me aware during all of that fiasco that I had been assigned to the same duty station with the guy at the same time,,,,Im still trying to figure out what he looked like...fubsy.
 
Im willing to bet that you old timers would be amazed at the level of sophistication of their computers today.


------------------
Better days to be,

Ed
 
Do not worry, guys, the Echelon global system is small potatoes compared to the super secret experiments by govenment and corporate(both are the same today ) labs in which human subjects , usually unwilling and unsuspecting guinea pigs, are having computer chips and transmitting devices implanted into their brains, ears and elsewhere in their bodies.The primary reason for all this is control which our new forming governmental system will need. Read Texe Marrs books ,Mega Force (1987) and his new book "Project L.U.C.I.D" Do the research. The idea of zombies is not so far fetched as a horror movie. The implantable biochip provide great potential for the elites and their lackeys of the coming one system to gain absolute conrol over mens minds. The Boulder Weekly quoted Texe Marrs , a political scientist, as saying that the implants will likely be used by a one world government to track people and control their lives. Heck these swine with their Project Haarp in Alaska have been messing with the ionossphere for years now and probably are to blame for much of our horrible wheather in this country. Our own government is responsible for so much experimentation on the American people that it boggles the mind. We should have been the watchmen on the wall,but have let our own government nearly destroy us. The beast system is real close to completeing its job.
 
Ivan,
Project Haarp is quite interesting and has the ability to locate some distance below the ground things kinda like sonar. It is true that at a certain vlf range it can have an effect on people over an extended period of time-----the same as the microwave bombardments of our embassys, by their host countries.
I do believe the weather is being affected by the abnormal conditions being experienced with our sun, very large and heavy sunspot activities...but Im not a scientist and am willing to learn...fubsy.
 
The microwave bombardment of the Us Embassy in Russia by the commies during the cold war has long ago made the mainstream media. THat is kindergarden stuff compared to all this other stuff going on. It gives me the creeps when I think about these mind control programs of "our" government. Our government within a government makes the Kgb look like pikers and second rate amateurs.And history may prove US government Technology much worse as it becomes tied in with the NWO plans for world domination. Made in the USA!
 
The "black sciences" are so advanced; that trying to discuss them with most folks is like trying to talk about guns with an individual that has only been exposed to the anti-gun media BS. Ridicule, anger and disbelief are the most common result. Echelon is more sophisticated than anyone has pointed out in this discussion. The technology involved is far beyond the simple Cray super computers you read about in the Wall Street Journal. Big Brother is here, now and it's real.
 
I retired from the USAF in 1979. For twenty years I worked with some rather varied projects.

1) Microwave "bombardment" (if we wish to call it that) is well known. Thirty, forty years ago, maybe longer, bugs were used which were difficult to detect because they were not active unless a specific microwave signal was aimed at the location of the bug (obviously from outside the building).

That signal activated the pickup (bug) only so long as the signal was active - letting the surveillance effort (in effect) turn the bug on and off. There's more, but believe me this is decades-old technology.

2) For decades, the U.S. Navy has used VLF frequencies to communicate around the world to fulfill specific tasking unique to the Navy. Such antenna fields require many acres of land and put out heavy wattage fields. There was debate about the affect of such VLF high-wattage antenna fields on people and animals in the 1960s.

3) OTH (Over The Horizon) radars have been used for decades. You would not believe the distance and resolution such radars provided twenty years ago. They've improved.

4) I've never worked with the weather radars on TV. But I've noticed when our boy wants to show exactly where the storms are, he can expand the desired area to show objects less than a city block. Weather radar. Can you imagine what our military/intelligence efforts can do?


5) Check out Microsoft's Terraserver for some interesting flicks:
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/default.asp

Look at the dates on some of the overhead photography. This was NOT the best photography available in the 1960s and 1970s.

I worked for the Census Bureau in 1990. You would not believe the information I had, as a field interviewer. They knew where every building was - including outhouses! Honest! Imagine what can be done now.

6) Big Brother is big. He doesn't need to track gun owners - most are irrelevant to his interests. But from time to time in the news we hear that certain groups have been infiltrated by operatives of our government. Which groups, how many groups, and other such questions are answered only on a "Need to Know" basis.

If you'll remember, the federales had a complete topographic model (in living color) of Ruby Ridge (with cute little buildings, roads, trees, etc.) before they invaded.

7) Question for you. When there is a DEcrease in the number and or importance of foreign surveillance targets, do you think the shops cut back, phase out workers, or "economize"?

Right! New threats, foreign and/or domestic, magically appear and "require" investigation and monitoring. (Simple facts supporting career progression.)
---------

Big Brother has the ABILITY to watch any of us in ways we would never even detect. But why would he do it? Remember, these feather merchants must justify the huge expenditures of resources involved with such studies and surveillance.

Unless and until owning guns becomes illegal, we probably don't have much to worry about. However, if valid intelligence targets become few, and we (as gun owners) attract the interest of Big Brother, then it could be a much different story.

RKBA!
 
After the repeal of Prohibition, there was a desperate search for new missions to justify keeping the vastly expanded federal apparatus.

The National Firearms Act of 1934 and the criminalization of marijuana in 1934 were two of the results. Check out the results from 1934, 1935, and 1936 in the Congressional Record.
 
Back
Top