Durability & Reliability of Beretta .40cal pistols...

L

long shot

New member
I'm looking at the 96 Centurion, 96 compact, 96G Elite or Brigadier.

Are Beretta's durable enough to handle the increased pressure & slide velocity generated by the .40, especially in the standard models that don't have the beefed-up slides ie: centurion & compact?

Should I get the Inox finish if I get a model other than the Elite?

Lastly, what should I expect to pay for these pistols?

Thanks in advance,
long shot!
 
Long Shot,

I have a Beretta 96 Brigadier Elite, and have shot it for over a year. It has had no problems at all. I don't shoot it as much as I would like, as I shoot several 1911 models more often, but it has had no problem with either reloads or factory.

Casey
 
Hello. I've seen one cracked slide on a Beretta 96. It was sent back to the factory and returned by the company saying there was no crack! You could easily see it and feel it with the edge of a knife blade. Best.
 
INS/BP seem happy with their Brigadiers. San Francisco PD seems happy with their 96s.

About the same pressure as the 9mm (35K) but peaks a lot sooner, more slide velocity, wear on the block. I would guess they last as long as the 9s with +p ammo and/or mil-spec ammo, but I could be wrong. The base here says they have never broken an M9 slide, never broken a block under 15K (it's very rare), most of their guns have over 30K through them with the original blocks.

Had a friend break the frames on two BHPs, both under 15K. **** happens. :)

The USN SEALs bought about 1500 Brigadier 9mm pistols last year. They got over it, maybe its time for everybody else to get over it too? :)

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http://home.att.net/~brokenarrrow/
 
BLUF: Durability? Probably not...
The 9mm versions don't last...why should a .40 on the same frame? The fact that various agencies seem content with theirs is a two-fold illusion. Face it, most departments (including Federal LEO) don't really put a lot of rounds downrange and thus, do not wear out their weapons. Secondly (and more importantly), most purchasers are BUREAUCRACIES. Do you really think that after fighting for funds to replace their old weapons with some new wonder pistol (such as the Beretta), that the bean counters and executive check signers are going to go back and admit that they bought a lame horse? They would rather sweep problems under the rug and attempt shortcut solutions (such as the Brigadier). US Navy SPECOPS (read SEALs) broke their toys during normal use and cried foul. USSOCOM (a huge Dilbert Palace) attempted to fund a solution with the Brigadier. The Navy said no thanx...next stop for the contract? US Army Special Forces...didn't want them either but the contract had already been let (Big Purple Joint Dollars! Oh My!). The Navy went SIG, the Army keeps rebuilding M9s, and the Brigadier contract gets passed around like a hot potato. Any weapons eventually rammed down Navy throats are there because the money came out of a Fiscal Year budget from about 5 years ago...not because they suddenly decided the pistols were good. "Senator, I do not recall why my predecessor purchased an unwanted solution to a covered up problem...er...I mean that the M9 has always been a superb weapon...and, uh, we are just making it superblier. And anyway, what I really want to talk to this august Committee about are these really way-cool MH model V-22 Tilt Rotor Infil/Exfil Platforms...see, we can INFILTRATE new M9 locking blocks to our boys right in the enemy's back yard!"
Think the Uncle Sam doesn't waste money this way? Yeah, right...Thanks, I WILL take another hit! Pistols are fairly inconsequential to the US military (except to a very small element of people who use them a lot). After over 20 years in Special Forces (current...not retired), I have some deep seated opinions about my tools. That's all a 9mm pistol is. A tool of the trade. I have personally observed 9 locking block failures (weapon will no longer function or fire and requires tools and a drift to disassemble) since April of this year. I expect to see about 5 more within the next week or so. 42 out of 82 weapons failed last year. All weapons replaced in January 00. The most recent 9 failures are on new "refurbished" replacements received that same month. If the MC1-1 Parachute failed as often as the M9, the Army's Airborne Troops would mutiny. The Beretta is a great gun for troops who only shoot a coupla times a year...It would qualify as great gun except for the locking block failures. In the mean-time...it's a nice boat anchor. Buy a Glock. Buy a CZ. Buy an HK. Buy a SIG. Don't buy advertising and pretty finishes. Did I mention that I'd like to be re-issued a GI 1911A1 in a real caliber? Oh well, that's another can of worms...BTW, Howdy, Broken Arrow!
 
Thanks for the replies so far!

Chindo18Z,

I own 3 Glocks, looking for some variety. If it's not Beretta's locking blocks, then it's HK's firing pins breaking, or Sig's frames cracking & poor finish, & Glocks, we all know they can blow up.

Guess I'll stick to Glocks, as there the cheapest of the bunch to replace.

Best,
long shot!
 
92FS don't last? Yeah right. I've had my 92FS for almost 10 years...pupmed alot of rounds through it. I've just recently replaced the locking block. Never had a problem with it, never failed to feed, never failed to fire. My Nat'l Guard has them, never seen one fail, never had a slide break, and these are used and abused (not great maintainence). My 92FS is my duty weapon, I'll stack it up against anything, several of my fellow officers carry the 96's (we can choose our own duty weapon), they never had a problem with theirs. I'd use a Glock as a bookend anytime.

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Steve
LPD
 
I bought an original Italian 92 way back when. I have a 92 Centurian. I just bought a Brigadiere Elite II. I think they are all great guns with very good quality and function. I like them. I also have several Glocks and like them too. If you are buying a new Beretta, I suggest the Brigadier version because the heavier slide seems to help with felt recoil and I think the quality is a tad better.
 
Broken Arrow, my SA friend still toiling away at INS bent his spear--I mean .40 Beretta. Apparently the gun had gone in to the factory at one time for sights out of line; been 'fixed' and night sights mounted. Those (unk if front, rear, or both(!) just fell off. I know that this is not a functional issue, but he is not particularly happy with it. Allegedly H&Ks are inbound but I do not know the details. I have another friend who went to the Beretta armorer's school when INS went to the DAO .40. He is not about to turn loose of his SIG .40 for anyone--least of all the Beretta.

Of course selection of the (perfect) Beretta was supposed to end all this confusion of Glocks, SIGs, Webley-Forsberrys, Nambus,and .357 revolvers. I grabbed the brass ring in '94 and consequently managed to miss all this 'progress'. Suffice it to say that in 40 plus years of shooting and 26 combined military and LEO (and lots of personally owned guns!) I have never owned either a S&W semiauto or Beretta. I suppose my life is incomplete but it doesn't bother me as much as you think it would...

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Howdy Chindo18Z! Are you at Bad Tolz? I guess some people take better care of their tools than others? Or use em harder? Whatever... I'm a retired USAF weenie; not gonna argue with a real soldier. :)

Personally I like the Glock 21, and that did terrible when the USMC tested em. Never can tell.

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[This message has been edited by BrokenArrow (edited August 24, 2000).]
 
I have had almost 5000 rounds through my Beretta 96D, and so far, there is no visible signs of excessive wear. I have only had one problem to fire, and that was due to a factory round (S&B) that had no powder. My 96 Centurion has only about 800 rounds through it, and no jams, no signs of excessive wear.

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"Out here, due process is a bullet"
 
Does the INS still issue the Beretta .40 DAO? I know that they've gone to the HK USP Compact for some of their officers (undercover, IIRC). It wasn't too long ago that they were still issuing Ruger revolvers...

Jared
 
Last I heard the DAO Brigadier was std issue, SIG 229 an approved option (the two I see in the holsters), the USP compact was on the way as std issue to plainclothes, ammo was Fed or Rem 155 JHP.

I guess it's reliable/durable/good enough for some, not others? :)

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>>>>----> http://home.att.net/~brokenarrrow/

[This message has been edited by BrokenArrow (edited August 24, 2000).]
 
1911, B/A: You are both correct. I was an INS firearms trainer till retirement in '94 and avoided the Berettas' debut. In my little world the women generally preferred and did best with Glock 19s; the men who were pistoleros tended to like the SIG 220. Many still used the Ruger .357s; I stayed with a 4" .357 myself because I was used to it and did my best work with it.

Personally I always felt that a department-annointed gun was about like an arranged marriage. Since I'm going to have to live with it I'd like some voice in the matter. Pretty uppity, I know.

Gotta get back to the elephant graveyard now.

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Yeah, I like the big boy/girl rule too. Let em carry anything they can qualify with as long as it works. Only restriction would be caliber choices (9,40,45,357 S&M) and duty ammo.

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http://home.att.net/~brokenarrrow/
 
The locking block failures refered to in this thread were due to a design flaw in the early models. Current production doesn't experience these failures. I have a 96 Brigideir INOX with 2,500+ rounds thru it with no failures. Only complaint might be a tad more wear than I would like to see on top of the rear slide rails. Very slight groove there you can catch with a sharp pointed knife. But I think that is to be expected on any gun where you have a steel slide rubbing on an aluminum rail.
 
I'm at the gun store, and I see two clerks struggling with a gun. Beretta Brigadier. A customer took it apart to clean it, and now it won't go back together again. They tried EVERYTHING, but the slide won't go back. Major design flaw??? You think??? I would never trust my life to it, so regardless of durability, reliability is not there and so durability is moot.

Albert
 
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