dummy rounds, snap caps or other???

B

bebo

Inactive
Hello all, I am pretty new to the gun scene and the wife is very new to it. We both just received the conceal & carry permit but have a question.

During the class the instructor had some kind of fake bullet that he used for the training of loading the mag and of putting one in the chamber. I believe he even fired one into the ground but i may be mistaken on that part.
Anyway on to my question, what is the best product for this application?

I have the Beretta PX4 compact and in the manual it does say not to dry fire, but instead to use a "snap cap" but is that better then a dummy round for just loading as well? not sure if that info is important or not but thought it couldn't hurt.

Thanks in advance..
 
A Zoom makes one of the better snap caps.

Id stay away from the red plastic ones. They seem to be a lot shorter lived and some have fit issues.

Id also avoid using homemade or commercial "dummy" rounds, that use a brass case, as they are hard to differentiate from live ammo, especially in the gun.

I use snap caps when I dry fire, but its more as a safety issue than anything else. The snap cap and a live round cant occupy the chamber at the same time. You have to physically clear/unload the gun to load the snap cap. They are also easily verified when you check. It would be nice if A Zoom would go with a brighter color, but hey, nothings perfect I guess.

I also use the snap caps for stoppage/malfunction drills at the range.
 
During the class the instructor had some kind of fake bullet that he used for the training of loading the mag and of putting one in the chamber
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Yes snap cap or dummy round. A little pricey for what they are but you can keep them as long as you don't loose them. They are good for training.

Also I just wanted to clear something up in your post. Not really such a thing as fake bullet. You could say fake rounds, dummy rounds or snap caps.
Live round(s) or amunition is the correct term. The "bullet" is just the projectile itself.

I believe he even fired one into the ground but i may be mistaken on that part.
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With these there is no projectile, nothing fires.

(Bullet or projectile) + (case or caseing or shell or brass) + (powder) + (primer)

Put all four together and you get a live round or amunition. Not a big deal, people use these words loosly but you might as well know the correct terms.
If you ever get into reloading you'll understand why it's more important to use the correct terms.

Edit : I use A-zoom snap caps too.
Edit : Oh yea and welcome to the forums. I learn things all the time on this forum.
 
When I teach CMP GSM Clinics I use "dummy rounds". I like to paint them to keep them seperated from normal rounds. They are needed for deminstrations in loading and unloads, using stripper clips, etc. Before I use them I make sure no ammo is in the area, and pass the rounds around to the class so they can examine them.

I use dummy rounds for practice loading with speedloaders in my revolvers, again painted.

I use snap caps for 22s, other then that I don't use snap caps or dummy rounds for my dry firing.

You can buy them or you can make them.
 
Seems official, i will get some A zoom caps.. so those can be put into the mag and into chamber but what happens when you pull the trigger? does it get stuck in the barrel?
Thanks again for all your help!!!
 
A Zoom's are top shelf; however, they are too expensive to by in any substantial quantity. If that is a concern to you, consider looking into something like the Precision Gun Specialtires - Saf-T-Trainer (Orange plastic dummy rounds)

You can purchase direct from them in bulk quantities (a typical pistol caliber is around $19.95 for 50, while a 12 ga. is like $25 for 25). Or you can often find them at Brownell's in smaller quantites of 5 to 10.

Just something to consider.
 
No, the firing pin just impacts the spot on the snap cap that is occupied by the primer on a live round.

The round should clear when ejected, just like a real cartridge.
 
ok now im feeling stupid, and this might be a really dumb question but i have to ask. Why would i need more then one or two of the snap caps? after you put them in the chamber do they go bad? Its not like reg ammo that once its shot its done right?
 
No, they last awhile. Some longer than others. The A Zooms seem to last about the longest.

They usually come 5 to a pack in the handgun calibers.
 
As some have noted, not all snap caps are created equal, I have bought some of the red plastic ones with a brass "primer" over a spring, in several the "primer" slipped its moorings, usually slipped too far down its tunnel to be useful. "Dry Firing" is any firing of a unloaded handgun, the consensus is that snap caps cushion the impact of the hammer on the firing pin and somehow prolong its life, and rimfires should NOT be dry fired without a snap cap due to their design-the firing impacts on the rear of the breech and can be peened from repeated impact.
A good home made snap cap can be made from a discarded case-one that is cracked, e.g. Use rubber cement or caulking to fill in the primer hole, it can be renewed as needed. Homemade training rounds can also be made from discarded cases. Do as the military does and drill them through the sides so they are easily recognizable.
 
i think for me, at least during the early learning stage, i will still with the store bought ones but its good to know that they can be made when you know what your doing. I just dont feel comfortable with me making anything and putting it into a gun at this stage of my gun handling.
But again thanks for all your input, I really appreciate it.
 
A couple of things to consider when using real cases to make your own.

First and foremost, you cant tell them apart from live ammo when they are in the gun unless you can mark them somehow. Most paints and markers wear off quickly and paints might cause issues themselves.

If you dont resize the brass, you could well end up with a stuck case in the gun if youre trying to use it in a gun other than what the round was originally fired in.

Id watch using things that might come out with use and unknowingly get caught up in the working parts, causing a real malfunction when you really dont need one.

If youre putting bullets into the cases to make dummies, you had better be keeping track of them and checking everything each time you take them out. Bullets tend to get loose quickly with use, and either set back or come out. One left in the barrel could spoil your day.

For the little bit the commercial made, use specific caps cost, is it really worth being that cheap about?
 
agreed. Pretty sure i won't be the type to be making anything to put into my gun. I would rather trust the pros to that kinda thing. I hear a lot of people talking about making reloaded ammo, and even that doesn't sound like something i would do. But i guess ya never know what the future holds. Maybe someday i will be a master gunner :D
 
I'm going to be the odd man out with my advice here, (surprise!)
Get both as they serve slightly different purposes.

Snap-caps are for firing practice, particularly with guns that need something working against the firing mechanism. For that purpose they are excellent, anything that promotes safe practice is excellent!

Action proving dummys serve as a practice tool for loading & unloading, malfunction drills & so on. AP dummies behave very differently from most snap caps when handling them, the nose shape, weight & balance are very different for example.

There are valid concerns voiced about accidentally replacing an AP dummy with a live round but this is easy to make difficult to do accidentally with some simple precautions & steps in the making of them. Couple this with segregation of training ammo, never ever near live rounds, & responsible, safe training drills & you should never have a problem.

Different "reloading" practice helps here as well.
For example clean & roughen the bullet base ( where it fits inside the case neck), roughen the matching inside of the case after resizing. Degrease & apply a little epoxy in the case neck & seat the bullet. Now stand the "load" nose down overnight. (That bullet is NOT going to move.)

To prevent mis-identification:
1. Remove the primer from the dummy case.
2. Mark or stain (not paint) the entire rear of the case.
3. Paint the inside of the exposed primer pocket with fishing bobber fluorescent paint in a bright color.
(These make the dummy instantly identifiable as such when loaded or in a chamber.)

4. Drill 3 or 4 holes in the sides of the resized case, enough holes that one will always be visible no matter how the case is aligned.
5. Use a visibly different case exclusively for dummies (Nickle plated instead of brass for example.)
(These easily identify the round when out of the chamber or magazine.)
 
+1 for A-Zoom bran Snap Caps....as an NRA instructor, I use them for demos in all my classes. My set for .45 ACP has lasted for over 3 years of use.....money well spent (~$15 for 5 rounds of pistol). DON'T buy the plastic ones either, they're crap....lasted about 5 days.....waited til A-Zooms showed up at my LGS and bought a pack.....lasted ever since...
 
thank you to all who have put their opinions up here, i too have been looking into snap caps. i was wondering though, when you guys say that some last longer than others, what are typical things to make a snap cap not useable anymore?
 
With the red plastic type, with the brass base, the "primer" is a spring loaded affair that usually gets driven up into the case and gets stuck very quickly and basically stops doing what its there for, which is soften the blow of the firing pin.

Thats not a real biggie with most modern guns, and the snap cap is still usually usable as a dummy.

The other trouble Ive had with them, and especially the rifle calibers, is they dont seem to be sized properly. Ive had a couple get stuck in the chambers of a .308 bolt gun and an AR. The A Zooms have never been a problem in that respect.
 
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