drug test and ccw

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wayneinFL

New member
There have been a couple of threads lately about carrying at work. It's legal in my state to carry at work, but it is also legal for the employer to fire you if he doesn't approve.

I always figured no problem as long as it stays concealed. Then no one knows. and as everybody knows, what they don't know doesn't hurt them.

This morning at work we had a drug test. To preface this- I've never done any illicit drugs. Didn't have a drug test when I started here, and that was in my mid 20's. In short, I'm not familiar with the system.

This drug test covered every employee at our company in this state. They brought technicians from the testing company to our workplace. I was in the front of the line. Calm and cool, I have to pee anyway, no problem. I did all the paperwork. Then the technician said, "Empty your pockets." Huh? "Empty your pockets into your hat and leave everything in here. You can't take anything in there (restroom) but your wallet."

I told her, as politely as I could, "I'll be right back. I'm not leaving my car keys and everything in here." She said "Wait! Come back!" I left the building and put the contents of my pockets in my bag in the van and went back in and took the test.

This situation got me thinking. Is every employee subject to search by his employer? I don't want to a discussion on a rights thing. But I wonder if this is true as it would have implications carrying at work. It would put a big hole in the out-of-sight-out-of-mind theory.
 
Wayne,

When dealing with private property you don't have many rights. They can pretty much do whatever it is that they feel like. You do have a choice though..."Do what we say or leave". I operate with the loosest interpretation of the 4th ammendment and associated case law that I can and still find random drug testing an absolute disgrace.(I am aware that we are comparing apples and oranges and that the B.O.R. protects citizens from the Govt not from eachother) It is still absolutely shocking to me that ANYONE can conduct searches and seize property(I consider urine, when still in my body, to be my property) on a whim and with no due process. "You are suspected of no crime, misconduct or violation of company rules, but we are gonna search ya anyways just to make sure". Crazy
 
Hmmmm, My company, as terms of employment, had what they call an employment drug test. They just can't test you anymore on a whim unless you have an accident, then they can also test for alcohol.

But I didn't think that federal law allowed for "just out of the blue" without it being presented in writing and signed but I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first or last time :).

Wayne

Edited: That was the polygraph that I was thinking of :o .
 
correct me if I'm wrong but I thought polygraphs were essentially useless

I thought the whole reason that a polygraph can't be submitted in court was because they're so innaccurate and can be easily fooled by anyone that just happens to be a good liar.
 
When dealing with private property you don't have many rights.
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That's what I figured. If random drug testing is a term of employment, then they have the authority to do it whenever they want. It wasn't a term of employment when I started there, but I can deal with change. They must be right- they have more lawyers than me. Other than the waste of money, drug testing doesn't really affect me, anyway- I've never used illicit drugs. I lead such a sheltered life.

Co-worker told me today, "You're going to test positive for Tums." Funnyman. :D

I'm more concerned about the empty-your-pockets thing. I've seen signs in other establishments saying all all employees are subject to search, or at least that employees purses, etc. could be searched. But I figured they had to sign something when they were hired to trade a little privacy for money. Apparently not. Evidently, where ever you work, your employer can tell you to empty your pockets, empty your purse or pull up your shirt, and you can submit to it, or refuse and be fired.

My personal opinion is that what is in my pocket is my business. It could be my checkbook, my 357, or a picture of me naked covered with peanut butter. As long as I'm not hurting somebody with it, it's nobody's business but mine. But I'm not the one running the world.
 
The reason for emptying the pockets is to make sure that you don't sneak in a bottle of urine that is from another source, to substitute for your own drug laced urine. People have been known to do that from time to time.

That must have been quite a shock to be told to do that while packing :)
 
The reason for emptying the pockets is to make sure that you don't sneak in a bottle of urine that is from another source
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They must have been "lowest bidder". OML here has a lab that detects if the urine is from the body or from outside the body. Something to do with how you can heat up the urine to body temperture and then substitute but that urine will decline in temperture faster. Urine out of the body will not decline as quickly. The temp is taken about 5 minutes after the sample is given and has to been within a certain range.

Their machines also checks for that powdered urine, "cleaners" in the urine, etc..

When I came to work here, I had an interview, was shown my work station, and then about 10 minutes later my new boss comes up to me and says, "You need to goto OML and get drug tested".

I was like, Okay (I also don't take illegal drugs, all I've tried is MJ and it made me sick). Went to OML, peed, came back and been here ever since.

As for empting the pockets, that is why I said that they must be "lowest bidder" since it seems like their machines won't/can't pick this up.

Wayne
 
Wayne, if the urine is 98 degrees it cools off at the same rate no matter how it became 98 degrees :). That is one of the rumors they put out to try and keep people from cheating. Testing for those urine cleaning drugs is another one I think too - who knows how many different varities of compounds are in those things - shoot those things have to be fake anyway - how can something clean your body out, it just adds even more stuff in.

I have to go annually, and they always make everyone empty their pockets. Even back in 71 when I was in the Army they tested us and made us empty our pockets - course in the Army they even watch you pee :D.

The only sure fire way to beat the test is to have a bottle (I have heard that some people have taped plastic bags to their bodies) of body temperature untainted urine and put it into the sampler.
 
Guy I used to work with had to take a drug test with someone watching him. He filled a rubber glove, and taped it to his body. He pulled a finger out of his fly, and pricked it with a pin. He said he got by with it. 3rd hand info to be taken with a grain of salt, though. Your results may vary.

That must have been quite a shock to be told to do that while packing
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Yes, that made me a little nervous. My supervisor is o.k. with it. But the H.R. director for the eastern half of the U.S. and the Florida region manager standing by and I'm gonna plunk a pistol down on the table? I'm not sure that would go over really well, considering I'm not in their good graces to begin with.
 
I do drug tests for the military and while I was in the military took several. We never make anyone empty thier pockets. The only thing anyone has to do is take off the unifrom top and go in in T-shirt, plus you have an observer accompany you in.

sounds stupid to me....
 
Drug Tests at Work

Bell Helicopter-Textron, Ft Worth, TX some years ago started giving drug tests for "workers". Me and a part time Baptist Preacher volunteered, me with the statement that I would, provided Supervision also underwent drug tests. The preacher was tested only one time in several years, myself accepted but never tested, attended several seminars or classes which paid the same hourly wage as working on choppers. Was all a smoke screen to satisfy somebody in Government. Nobody who didn't volunteer had to undergo tests.
 
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