Drinking and home defense ?

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westphoenix

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***** ANY COMMENTS MADE SHOULD NOT BE ASSUMED AS LEGAL ADVISE *****
***** ALL INFORMATION HERE IS THAT PERSONS OPINION OR BELIEF OF THE LAW *****
***** CONSULT A LAWYER IN YOUR STATE *****

OK, these questions are for drinking at home and on your private property.

#1 - Backyard
Say you are drinking in your backyard playing some cards with your friends and a man comes jumping over your fence as if he is running from something. If you pull your gun and hold him there for the police are you committing a crime?
What if the man pulls a weapon and you shoot him?

#2 - In the House
Say you are in your house drinking and having a good time with friends and a man breaks into your house, are you breaking the law by shooting him?

#3 - Something happens out front
Say you are in your house drinking and having a good time with friends when you hear your car alarm go off. You run outside to see someone trying to steal your car. You pull your weapon and command them to lie on the ground. Are you committing a crime? What if they pull a weapon and you shoot them?
What if it was a screwdriver and you thought it was a gun, does that change anything?

#4 - Front Yard
What if you are drinking some beers in your front yard while watering the grass and waiting for your buddy to finish his cigarette. A car comes down the street shooting out the window. You are unclear of what he is shooting at so you take cover behind a column of tree. As the car approaches you have your weapon in hand ready to return fire. The shooter sees you and aims his weapon. You fire striking the car and possibly the persons inside.
Your bullets hit no other property or persons; did you commit a crime?
Say one or two of your bullets struck the house across the street causing some property damage; did you commit a crime?
Does it make any difference if the shooter actually shot at you, or just aimed?

I know in Arizona you are allowed (by law) to threaten deadly force to stop someone from committing or fleeing a crime. You cannot use this deadly force; only threaten it.
You can only use deadly force to prevent severe bodily harm, death of you or others, to prevent arson of an occupied structure, and to prevent or stop rape and or kidnapping.

I know better then to be drunk and armed in public.
But, is it illegal to be drunk, or under the influence and armed when at home?
I know this varies from state to state.
 
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I am not familiar with AZ law, but I know that the state of FL provides Castle Doctrine laws, that encompass almost any case. While in my home I do not have to retreat, or hesistate, before using deadly force. If I am enjoying a glass of wine or two in my home, I don't expect my judgement to be impaired, however, I would fully expect to be given a sobriety test in the moments after LEOs arrive.

That said, I know I didn't answer your original question, but that is my position on the topic. My castle, my rights, BGs be damned.

j.
 
This one should be interesting, should being out the "I'll throw the first stone" crowd :p .

Depends on your laws for your state. I was mistaken when I said that Oregon you didn't have to flee. And you can't shot someone for stealing. Even if you pointed the gun at them, as long as they didn't threaten you and just picked up your weedeater or just continued to steal your car, there's nothing that you can do.

In your home is another thing as well as your backyard (not on the stealing part but your examples).

Also, unless you are under immediate threat of death or great harm, you can't discharge a firearm over a roadway.

Wayne
 
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Strictly my opinion, but I prefer to stay armed 24-7, so I don't disarm myself to have a drink and there's nothing in state law here in NH that says I give up my right to defend myself if I choose to have a beer. Of course, I also haven't gotten drunk since before I got my permit... I might relax with a beer after work or have one or two on a hot Saturday afternoon, but that's pretty much it.
 
USP45usp said:
unless you are under immediate threat of death or great harm, you can't discharge a firearm over a roadway.
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Yes that is true here. Lets assume no alcohol in this one:
But if the driver is pointing a weapon at me; am I justified in shooting at him while he is driving/riding in a vehicle; correct?
 
I stopped drinking when I got my CPL.

Since I got my CPL, I can count the number of drinks I've had on one hand. Each time I disarmed myself first.
Drinking and guns do not mix. That's what I was taught and that's what I'll stick to.
I am not saying YOU have to give up YOUR right to self defense if you have been drinking, it is just a personal choice on my part. But then, I also have the luxury of a wife who can keep the gun with her that night :eek:

You have a better understanding of your limits than anyone else, especially when drinking. If you drink enough, you will, over time, start to realize what your limit is. That's physically, anyway.
Legally, plan on some hard times coming, even in a justified shooting. Even more so if you were above your local legal BAC. If the BG lives, his defense attorney will have a feild day with you. If not, his money grubbing crook family's crook attorney will have a feild day with you.
You can also assume that a judge will loose most of his sympathy if he knows that you were even mildly intoxicated when you decided to shoot.

A justified shooting is a justified shooting, no matter what the scenario. Just be prepared to have a much harder time proving that justification if you were intoxicated.
As far as being drunk and armed in you home, that is different from state to state, and I would suggest you check with your local LEO's on that one.
 
Why would you confess to being intoxicated in the first place?

Unless you are visibly (staggering) drunk or smell strongly of alcohol, you will probably not be asked.

If asked, lie.

The police are not your friends in this situation.

" Yes sir, I have had about 5 shots of liquor since I dropped the hammer...but I was sober as a judge at the time of the shooting."

Let the prosecution prove otherwise.
 
Drinking or not:
#1 You cannot detain someone just for running. You said as if he was running from something. It could have been a dog.
#2 Just because someone breaks into your house you don't have the right to shoot the invader if no cause of bodily harm is shown to you or others of the household.
#3 If someone is stealing property and not showing a threat to you then you cannot show deadly force.
#4 If a car comes down the street shooting and you take cover, if you can see the occupants taking aim at you then you haven't taken cover. Returning fire on a moving vehicle in public will probably get you a nice orange jumpsuit.
 
I never really got this retreating thing. If I'm already in my home, where the H*** am I gonna retreat to? Lock myself in the bloody WC? If someone comes into my house looking for trouble, they are going to find it, I don't care how much tequila I got in me.

Jim
 
Scenarios and legality aside - personally I never really understood the need to incapacitate myself inside my home or out. Defense is rather difficult to undertake given such limitation...
 
Sure glad I don't live in a "duty to retreat" state!

>#1 You cannot detain someone just for running. You said as if he was
> running from something. It could have been a dog.

No vicious dogs around my property. But if he just kept running, who cares? Get a description for when the cops come around asking questions. If he pulls a weapon, all bets are off.

>#2 Just because someone breaks into your house you don't have the right
> to shoot the invader if no cause of bodily harm is shown to you or others > of the household.

B&E means the idiot broke something to get in. I don't have to assume he's wanting to borrow a cup of sugar. In this case, I'm enjoying the company of friends when this happens. That means it is a Hot break-in. The idiot is not there to kibbutz at the card table. He's asked politely, once, to get on his face. My house. My rules. Non-compliance will get you shot.

>#3 If someone is stealing property and not showing a threat to you then
> you cannot show deadly force.

Grand Theft Auto is a felony in my state. I'm allowed to use lethal force to stop felons in the commission of the crime. Doesn't much matter whether it is my property, on my property or what...

>#4 If a car comes down the street shooting and you take cover, if you can
> see the occupants taking aim at you then you haven't taken cover.
> Returning fire on a moving vehicle in public will probably get you a nice
> orange jumpsuit.

If a car comes down my street and shots are being fired, I will have my gun in my hand. Guess what I do if he points his gun towards me? Will I go to jail on this one? Nope... On my street, these idiots are liable to be taking fire from several directions. One of us will get them.

I know most of the wannabe hoods in my town. They have already been warned by me and my neighbors. Stay out. Stay away. You'll live longer.
 
Majic said:
Drinking or not:
#1 You cannot detain someone just for running. You said as if he was running from something. It could have been a dog.
#2 Just because someone breaks into your house you don't have the right to shoot the invader if no cause of bodily harm is shown to you or others of the household.
#3 If someone is stealing property and not showing a threat to you then you cannot show deadly force.
#4 If a car comes down the street shooting and you take cover, if you can see the occupants taking aim at you then you haven't taken cover. Returning fire on a moving vehicle in public will probably get you a nice orange jumpsuit.
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I believe most of what you said is correct for certain states and thats were this discussion gets difficult.

#1
He could have been running from a rape, murder or the police, which is highly common in my area. He is trespassing on my property by entering a fenced in area. If someone is running and jumping fences I believe most reasonable people will believe he is fleeing a crime scene. It could be a tough one though. I think you'd be ok, as long as you didnt shoot the person. Only try to hold them until LE arrives.

#2
This can also be a tricky one. The law in AZ reads; if you feel your life is in danger or you believe there is a threat of severe bodily harm. Anyone entering my home without permission is going to make me feel threatened and scared for my life. Of course I would not actually shoot unless I felt threatened. If he gave up right at the sign of my gun, I would only detain him.

#3
Another different from state to state. A AZ gun law book I have says something like you can threaten deadly force to prevent a crime, but you cannot use deadly force to prevent a crime. This law is good because you point the weapon and tell him lay on the ground or Ill shoot. The criminal doesnt know what you are going to do. Are you going to break the law and shoot in the heat of the moment or can he retreat without harm?

#4
This is the one I question the most. There are not a lot of places to retreat in my front yard. Theres a column and three trees or you can run into the house. I myself, must know what he is shooting at. Did he just kill someone, can I be a witness to the vehicle description and occupants? Is he coming for me? Pistol would be in hand and I would be looking around the tree. If he fires, I would mostly likely fire also.

If someone ever does break into your house and you shoot them what do you tell the police, or do you not talk to them at all?
Do you simply call 911 and say a man broke into my house and I shot him send police and medical rescue?
When the police arrive do you keep it that simple and ask for a lawyer?
If the man had a gun, I would speak with the police.
If he didnt have a gun or weapon I would ask for a lawyer before speaking with the police.
What do you think, should you always get a lawyer even when it appears to be cut and dry?

I drink on weekends with my friends and have a good time.
Firearms are kept close as always.
I would be much less likely to shoot when drinking to prevent myself from the possible legal issues.
I guess this is just one of those, too different from state to state and all depends on how much you have been drinking and the details of the scenerio.

I guess its about time for me to get my CCW. I could ask all these questions in the class and see what the instructor thinks.
 
Lock myself in the bloody WC?
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My superior power of deduction tells me you ain't a Wisconsin native. I use the word "bloody" once in a while, but to me, the "WC" will always be.......the can. :D
 
My superior power of deduction tells me you ain't a Wisconsin native. I use the word "bloody" once in a while, but to me, the "WC" will always be.......the can.
Click to expand...

I just read too many British books, don't really talk like that. :)
 
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