Drawing the weapon before something starts

M

Monkeyleg

New member
I have a feeling this question will generate some heat, but what the hey.

You perceive a potential threat, but you can't verify it's for real yet. Your weapon is under a sweater or other garment that makes the time required to draw it too long if the threat should become real. Do you draw the weapon and keep it out of sight (and if so, where is "out of sight"), draw it in plain sight or keep it holstered?

For the moment, this question is pretty much hypothetical for me, until the pols pass CCW here in Wisconsin, which could be soon.

Dick
 
My choice is get behind cover until I figure out the situation. If it starts to get worse, then I could a: run away (not pretty but often the best choice), b: draw and issue a verbal command, or c: as a last resort "front sight & press". If you are out in the open waiting for things to get worse, they probably will! Just my 2c

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keep your options open &
never miss!

[This message has been edited by STEVE M (edited February 11, 2000).]
 
I'll chime in with a "no."

If you cannot verify a threat you cannot draw a concealed weapon by law in most places. Always assume someone will see you draw a weapon. Assume the police will subsequently be called, will arrive, and will want to talk with you. Its a coin toss as to whether you will be charged, but assume you will be. At that point is time you will lose your CCW and your gun. The media will brand you and other gun owners "paranoid." The general population will believe it, and be swayed over to the anti's side. Its not worth it.

I suggest modifying your method of carry so that you can get to it reasonably fast.

There will be plenty of responses that disagree with mine, I am sure. Just remember that if the threat is real it will be downplayed in the media and subsequently nobody will care. On the other hand, see above...

Erik
 
Greetings; This is where it is necessary to
train the "startle response" sense's. You
learn to move into four conditions, and
they are in order:

1) white- sub concious mind set; sleeping
day dreaming, etc.
2) orange- concious and alert to your
immediate surrounding's; but still in
a relax mode.
3) yellow- you feel a threat is imminent;
but the target is not yet defined. You
are on alert, paying attention to any
all details that surround you.
4) red- target identified, shift into the
"00" mode; awaiting the suspect's next
action. If a serious threat is present
them it will be up to you to respond
by 1) escape and evading the scene, 2)
moving to cover and concealment to
analyze the threat, 3) seek help from
other party's, or 4) draw your CCW and
hold them at gunpoint, until an LEO
arrive's and takes control. ONLY, as
a last resort, do you blow him away!!!

I'm sure other's will have some more opinions. Hope this helps some. :)

Besy Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
Monkeyleg,

I'll also voice a no.

If you can not bid a hasty retreat:
I've always believed that there's only one reason (a real and immediate threat to life or limb) that would cause a person to present an otherwise concealed weapon.
There is no other choice.
There is no other option.
And once it has been drawn, it is to be used.
No bluffing.
No idle threats.
No second guessing.
No self doubts.

Concealed carry is not for everyone.

Vary your ways and means of carry
Be aware of your surroundings at all times
Use common sense
And practice

Good luck


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...defend the 2nd., it protects us all.
No fate but what we make...
 
How about a nice mushy "depends on the situation". We frequently see cops discreetly draw their pistol on traffic stops and keep it behind their gun-side thigh and out of view of the motorist. This can provide an edge if things go badly, but be aware of the fact that if you start a situation with the pistol in one hand and shooting becomes necessary, you will likely shoot one-handed...with the resultant lesser effectiveness. This tendency has been demonstrated, even with highly trained shooters, in "force-on-force" Simunitions training scenarios.

Rosco
 
Rosco:

Wyoming is the "Equality State" and that is our state moto. Why? Because Wyoming was the first state to allow women to vote.

Everyone Else:

We had a shooting here last summer in which the pistol started "in hand". The county attorney is taking the position that having the handgun at the ready before a life theatening situation existed was an indication that the shooter was escalating the situation and he acted in a criminal fashion. Goes to trial soon. I'll let you know how it works out.
 
Lawman,

According to Col. Cooper there are only the 4 color codes as described by Ala Dan (although he did confuse yellow and orange). Condition black is a bastardization of the Colonel's original concept.

bkm...

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Anyone worth shooting, is worth shooting twice...
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ala Dan:
You learn to move into four conditions, and they are in order:
1) white-
2) orange-
3) yellow-
4) red- [/quote]

Right Color Code... Incorrect order.

Think of it as a shift of awareness colors...

White - Not a color, a tint. Unaware. (I may get killed at any time but I'm not going to think about it cause the Government will protect me from all evil :D)
Yellow - 1st Color, Aware of surroundings, scanning for possable threats. (I may have to kill someone today)
Orange - 2nd Color (mixture of 1st & 4th Color) Possable threat identified, Attention on that threat and still scanning surrounding for other possable threats. (I may have to kill him/her today)
Red - Possable threat identified as threat, Fight mode (I will kill him/her today if needed).

Some people have added Black to the code, however, I, and others, see no need. When in Red a threat is identified and you have already reached the decision that if the threat continues you will use deadly force. It is dependent on the threats actions weather you do or not... it is not dependent on making another decision (i.e. I will/am going to shoot)

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Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

[This message has been edited by Schmit (edited February 11, 2000).]
 
Monkeyleg,

I think Steve M. has it right and Foxfire adds the right emphasis. It really doesn't sound he-man to turn tail and retreat BEFORE the battle starts, but I see it as the price we should be prepared to pay for CCW.

Joe
 
color codes?

i'm in line to order dinner at taco bell at 1:OOam after work (i live in a 'seedy' area).

a black male approaches from the driver's side. he holds a can of natural light. i immediately grab my revolver from the console and hold it on my right thigh.

he asks to get in so he can order (no walk ups at all and no inside after a certain hour). i tell him "no man". he p#sses and moans. but i still order when my turn comes around.

as i approach the window to recieve the order, this individual walks up and says that he is with me and wants to order. the cashier asks me, and i say no. this individual then goes to the passenger side door and tries to open it. it is locked, but i point my revolver at him and shake my head no anyway. this individual now leaves.

cashier asks if i want to call the cops. i tell him no.

as i exit, i see this same fellow walk into a motel that is much better and more expensive than where i am staying. more than likely he drove drunk to taco bell in order to get some munchies.

chew my #ss/analyze at will.
 
Other folks teach 5 colors. Bastardization is not a useful term. Cooper may be respected but just because he said 4 isn't an argument against 5. I've heard pretty reasonable arguments for the 5.
 
Roscoe

Police officers draw their weapons and have them at "ready" because they can. Keep in mind most states(if not all) have brandishing laws, if you draw a weapon and people see it you might have some problems. The gun hating media loves to get this kind of stuff in the headlines.

I agree with some of the other post, get out of their if you can.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jim Keenan:
How do you keep some BG from shooting you while you are figuring out what color code to use?[/quote]

If your trying to figure out what color code to use you were in white and went from there into an "Ahhh Snit" mode. You have already lost.

Other then in your house, with live/electronic defenses out/armed you should never be in white. Once these devises are no longer being utilized you should be in yellow at all times unless "something catches your attention".



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Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
Taking the gun out of it's holster before you are ready to "present" it only slows down your response time. Since I carry behind the hip, I think that I'd have my hand on the weapon about the time my hair started to stand on end, whether or not the BG's intent was 120% certain at the time. Cops have been crucified for doing this, claiming "intimidation", but their weapon is in full view. In a supportside forward defensive stance, the BG aint gonna see nothing. We all know that 21 feet with a contact weapon is a tossup, even if you've practiced to the level of "center of mass from conceiled holster in 1.5 seconds". Having your hand on the grip cuts your response time in half. If someone who appears dangerous gets inside of that 21' barrier and I can't retreat, don't put your beer money on my hand being anywhere else. The witnesses reports would surely look better saying: "Yeah, he had a gun, but he didn't take it out, nor did (the complaintant) see it." Rather than: "The idiot pulled his gun on that poor retarded soul and was pointing it all over the place". Also, witnesses seeing your hand on your gun are thinking: "Wow, something's gonna happen, wonder if he's a cop". They would be very focused on all actions that follow. Once it comes outta the holster, the sheep are gonna be bleating at the top of their lungs, and scattering. Guess what? The last thing that they see is you pulling your gun "prematurely".
 
Gunny,
I agree.
Only while at home, do I settle into condition 'white'.
Everywhere else, I'm in a 'yellow' mode.

IMO, there are really only 3 colors to keep in mind.
Anything past 'orange', is the point of no return.
Call it 'red', 'black', 'green', 'purple' or whatever, it all comes down that for whatever reason(s) the S(has)HTF.

In my life I keep things as simple as possible. Sets of 3 work best for me.
And it seems to be easier to teach and be comprehended by others.

Bottom line, no matter if you choose the Colonel's method or a variation of your own, by all means use something, and be aware of your surroundings at ALL times, whether you carry or not.
And above all, be safe...




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...defend the 2nd., it protects us all.
No fate but what we make...
 
I won't draw my weapon not unless I am determined to shoot the guy that I perceived he will shoot me (but that is alot of good judgement).

By any legal parlance, once you draw your weapon and aim to any one and he complained -you will be in legal trouble, no reason for excuse. Perhaps several lawyers are here and know the cases to be charge to someone who draws a gun and aim to somebody.

I had an experienced two yrs ago that an armed man is about to draw his revolver at me in a gambling session but he cannot just draw at once as I am also holding my bowie knife at my back to cut his throat, every time he attempt to draw his revolver I am forwarding one step to him, it is fine the situation was pacified.

To shoot or harm any one is easy if we really like to do it, there is no need of so much shooting practice. The only thing that hold us is to live in a good life not behind bars, but who knows if we could do things beyond our control.

Being a civilian I am always careful when to made such action so as to have an edge in litigation. For the police, no problem at all even they will draw and aim at false alarm they will be justified always and there is no case against them, not unless the person charging them is a rich man and has influence.

Thank you,
 
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