Double taps.., Part Deux

F

FVK

New member
Whether you double, single or shoot to slide lock, one thing I find alot of opinions on..,
Do you watch the front sight as you engage each target or do your eyes leave the sights and look to the next target first, then get back on the sights?

Jim Cirrillo has said often that his eyes never left the front sight as he engaged multiples. I talked to a Sheriffs Deputy who was involved in a shooting on a vehicle stop. Multiple hostiles, his eyes also stayed on the sights.

How about this, do you keep both eyes open or do you close the non-dominant eye?

I was involved in a raid on a drug dealers house, first floor was occupied by up to 14 pit bulls at any given time. Sort of a alarm/deterrent system for 5-0 and rivals.
Upon entry I was charged by 2 of the dogs, I shot the first one, it was almost point blank, those things move fast. Here is where it becomes interesting to me(after the fact :)). As I turned to pick-up the second dog in my sights, I had to close my non-dominant eye to see the front sight clearly. I regularly practice and compete shooting with both eyes open?!?! I still haven't found an answer for that one but it makes me question my training with both eyes open. The dog was aprox. 10 feet away when my first round hit it, it stopped about 4 feet from me and "expired". I don't understand why, when I first brought my gun around to shoot him I saw 2 sets of sights and I couldn't focus on the front sight until I closed the other eye.
The aforementioned deputy told me that during his shooting he could not close one eye, even though he remembers, as strange as it may seem to think this in the middle of a fire fight, "Close your left eye". That was one of the main reasons I started training to shoot with both eyes open.

Please don't flame me about animal abuse, I was raised on a farm and love animals. But, I am not going to be their lunch. Not all of them were killed, just the 2 that still attacked after 3, yes, 3 flash-bangs. The rest responded about like humans do when flash-banged into another time zone.




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"There is a common thread between competition and combat shooting - only hits count" Keith Cunningham
 
>>I saw 2 sets of sights and I couldn't focus on the front sight until I closed the other eye<<

Sounds like the second dog scared the crap outta you, and your eyes were fixed on HIM, that's why you saw 2 sets of sights.

How have you trained to shoot with both eyes open? Do you practice shooting the target on the right (when there is really only one target standing? No flame, just curiosity.
 
All my shooting is 'one eye closed'. Just can't seem to focus correctly with both eyes open.


Seriously hope it doesn't get me killed.

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
fast forty,
Your right, sort of. Actually both dogs scared the crap outta' me. Anything still standing after 3 flash-bangs, ain't of this earth!!

Training wise, I was taught by a competitive shooterer the same method alot of people use to shoot with both eyes open. Starting by placing a piece of clear tape over my left eye (on the glasses :)) and practicing with both eyes open. Gradually I removed a slice at a time until I was shooting with both eyes open and looking at the front sight. In competition it seemed to help me pick up the next target in a lateral string of targets a lot easier. In the example I cited in my first post, the second dog ran at me in a semi-circular pattern, like he was trying to get behind me. He was moving FAST! I don't think I have met a man yet that has moved that fast.

It wasn't a long time period, I looked for my sights, saw a confusing array of sight pictures, closed my left eye, the front sight looked as big as my thumb, I pressed twice and hit twice.

I wonder if it has to do with the pattern of his movement? I have participated in numerous force on force scenarios and have always shot with both eyes open, never had a problem.

My eyes were looking at him to begin with, engaging multiple targets I always look to the next target then bring the gun in line, as soon as the sights get between my eyes and the target I break the first shot. At least in competition :(. My close friend has told me hundreds of times to keep my eye on the front sight while moving the gun on multiple targets, maybe he's right. He has been trained extensively by the guy's at The Site in Il. and has qualified as an advanced firearms instructor with them.

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"There is a common thread between competition and combat shooting - only hits count" Keith Cunningham

[This message has been edited by FVK (edited March 22, 2000).]
 
At close intervals (+ - 3 yards), you can get a brief and rough glance at the sights (sort of aligned on target) and still get a good solid hit with both eyes open. As the distance or difficulty of the shot grows, so does the need for sight refinement. This is not much of a problem because shots like this are generally not urgent shots and you can spend a little more time.

If you only train for encounters within 3 yards, your technique will not be sufficient for problems beyond 3 yards, or for head shots and the like. It all depends on what you want your operational abilities to be.

For me, I want to be able to hit anything I can see from a 3 yard close contact shot to 125 yards body shots. To do this you must have a method that will work well at all times and for all shots (also remember Mr. Hick and his law).

You only close the non-master eye the instant the weapon is aligned on target, and only as long as it takles to fire the shots. The eys open up right after this to see what happened and to determine if more shooting is needed.
I know that there are those who want a video camera bolted and mounted on my head, facing my eyes to make sure that it really works like that when the bovine dropping impacts on the ventilator blades, but alas I can't provide that.

I can provide one benign example of a 90 pound pitbull who decided my leathery hide might make a good chew toy one night (no statute of limitations issues with dogs :)).
I had no expectation of danger and it was a surprise all the way. The pistol (Glock 17)was instantly out of the holster and in hand (as I'd practiced thousands of times), a lateral movement was executed automatically (again, training), and the last thing I remember was seeing the front tritium dot of the Heine Straight 8 sight on the pooch's forehead (Oh yeah, it was dark too.). Results: One Head Shot on said K9.

Closing the non-master eye for the brief moment of firing works extremely well as long as you train yourself to do it (wanting to do it is not enough). It all depends on how good you want to be.

Gabe Suarez
HALO Group http://www.thehalogroup.com
 
Darn that browser- another example of a posting douple tap...

[This message has been edited by mckysdad (edited March 22, 2000).]
 
What do you all think of holo sights for pistols? I always see this ad for "The Doctor" which looks fairly small and snag free?

Do you think that it would still enable tactical use and yet speed up target acquisition while taking care of the one/two eyes problem?

Curious and speaking out of ignorance...
 
At close intervals (+ - 3 yards), you can get a brief and rough glance at the sights (sort
of aligned on target) and still get a good solid hit with both eyes open.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
AT 3 yards we need sights? Let's see extend both arms (about 36 inches or three feet closer to the target) leaves us 6 feet MAX, or a step and a half from gun to thug. Since handgun slugs aren't always 100% INSTANTLY effective, we may have that gun inserted into a body cavity. Also 85% or more are in low light and darkness so just finding it will be a little slow. We may get a 10.0 in "form and style" and a 0.0 in surviveability. I think it is a math issue.
 
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