You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
double/single action or DAO
- Thread starter jaykay397
- Start date
Whatever you choose, practice with it until its safe and correct operation is second nature to you.
With a DAO, all the shots are the same. The trigger pull is a long, hard, double action pull which brings the hammer back each time. The hammer never stays cocked. I think this type of pistol is one of the simplest to handle, and is consequently easier to learn to handle safely. Most don't have any manual safety to forget to engage. However, the hard, long trigger pull requires a lot of practice to achieve reliable accuracy, especially in high stress, rapid fire situations.
The DA/SA pistols have the hard double action pull on the first shot, then give you a nice easy single action pull for subsequent shots. Two easy ways to screw up badly with one of these are: 1)-forget to decock it before holstering (can result in ND); 2)-forget to take your finger out of the trigger guard after firing shot(s) in a stressful situation, resulting in a ND; I seem to recall a Maryland cop putting a round in the back of a suspect's head that way while he had the suspect in custody against the patrol car. Again, practicing the safe and correct handling methods will minimize the chance of making a stupid mistake like this. Also, there are differences between models and makes of pistols. Some have a manual safety and a decocker, some have only a decock lever and no manual safety, like my P89DC Ruger.
Single action pistols, IMHO, require the most discipline, and are the most unforgiving of stupidity, because of their always-cocked operating mode and the light, short trigger pull required to fire them. I think the most effective mode of carry for a single action pistol is with the hammer cocked, a live round chambered, and the SAFETY ON (i.e., "cocked and locked"). I personally like a holster that has a strap which goes between the cocked hammer and the frame of the pistol, if the pistol has an exposed hammer, like the 1911 style pistols. People also carry these pistols with an empty chamber and the hammer down (safe but slow), and some people chamber a round and then manually lower the hammer to either a de-cocked or half-cocked position, depending on the gun. This can be VERY DANGEROUS depending on the design of the pistol: Does it have an internal firing pin block safety which automatically prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled? If not, then manual decocking can be dangerous, and also the pistol will discharge if the hammer is struck. That'll never do. Don't ever carry a gun of that type in that condition! If you think you'll never drop it, think again. It can happen to anyone. Again: KNOW YOUR GUN, and practice, practice, practice with it until you do the safe and correct thing by habit.
These are just some thoughts I had on this question.
Happy shooting. Be safe. Above all, keep your finger out of the trigger guard until you are on target and ready to fire.
-10CFR
With a DAO, all the shots are the same. The trigger pull is a long, hard, double action pull which brings the hammer back each time. The hammer never stays cocked. I think this type of pistol is one of the simplest to handle, and is consequently easier to learn to handle safely. Most don't have any manual safety to forget to engage. However, the hard, long trigger pull requires a lot of practice to achieve reliable accuracy, especially in high stress, rapid fire situations.
The DA/SA pistols have the hard double action pull on the first shot, then give you a nice easy single action pull for subsequent shots. Two easy ways to screw up badly with one of these are: 1)-forget to decock it before holstering (can result in ND); 2)-forget to take your finger out of the trigger guard after firing shot(s) in a stressful situation, resulting in a ND; I seem to recall a Maryland cop putting a round in the back of a suspect's head that way while he had the suspect in custody against the patrol car. Again, practicing the safe and correct handling methods will minimize the chance of making a stupid mistake like this. Also, there are differences between models and makes of pistols. Some have a manual safety and a decocker, some have only a decock lever and no manual safety, like my P89DC Ruger.
Single action pistols, IMHO, require the most discipline, and are the most unforgiving of stupidity, because of their always-cocked operating mode and the light, short trigger pull required to fire them. I think the most effective mode of carry for a single action pistol is with the hammer cocked, a live round chambered, and the SAFETY ON (i.e., "cocked and locked"). I personally like a holster that has a strap which goes between the cocked hammer and the frame of the pistol, if the pistol has an exposed hammer, like the 1911 style pistols. People also carry these pistols with an empty chamber and the hammer down (safe but slow), and some people chamber a round and then manually lower the hammer to either a de-cocked or half-cocked position, depending on the gun. This can be VERY DANGEROUS depending on the design of the pistol: Does it have an internal firing pin block safety which automatically prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled? If not, then manual decocking can be dangerous, and also the pistol will discharge if the hammer is struck. That'll never do. Don't ever carry a gun of that type in that condition! If you think you'll never drop it, think again. It can happen to anyone. Again: KNOW YOUR GUN, and practice, practice, practice with it until you do the safe and correct thing by habit.
These are just some thoughts I had on this question.
Happy shooting. Be safe. Above all, keep your finger out of the trigger guard until you are on target and ready to fire.
-10CFR
Robert Foote
New member
Am currently trying to remember what section 10CFR relates to, as I used to live in a different volume. No matter.
Anyway--Having had some experience in this, I would tend to agree with everything 10CFR says. Just apply Murphy's Law to everthing imaginable times ten. SA mode can be VERY problematical in the real world under stress and the situations to prove it have been numerous and documented. DAO takes care of some of that but has its own drawbacks. I have very rarely found a DAO with a really good trigger. Tried a SIG 220 in DAO for a while but actually went back to SA/DA. But that is not my 'serious' gun. That said, a Glock works out pretty well. Were I still working as an LEO I would experiment with heavier factory pulls until I found one that I could still shoot well and stop there.
There is a phenomenon known as 'tachy-psyche', which essentially says that when you are startled, lose your balance, or otherwise react to something, your muscles contract. This includes your trigger finger, which can be a bad thing. Of course your finger is not supposed to be there most of the time, but not everyone complies...
Have also done some shooting in weather as cold as minus 30, which is a revelation. I would just as soon have a hand grenade as an SA trigger under those circumstances! You can't feel anything.
For these and other reasons I am still a DA revolver person.
------------------
Anyway--Having had some experience in this, I would tend to agree with everything 10CFR says. Just apply Murphy's Law to everthing imaginable times ten. SA mode can be VERY problematical in the real world under stress and the situations to prove it have been numerous and documented. DAO takes care of some of that but has its own drawbacks. I have very rarely found a DAO with a really good trigger. Tried a SIG 220 in DAO for a while but actually went back to SA/DA. But that is not my 'serious' gun. That said, a Glock works out pretty well. Were I still working as an LEO I would experiment with heavier factory pulls until I found one that I could still shoot well and stop there.
There is a phenomenon known as 'tachy-psyche', which essentially says that when you are startled, lose your balance, or otherwise react to something, your muscles contract. This includes your trigger finger, which can be a bad thing. Of course your finger is not supposed to be there most of the time, but not everyone complies...
Have also done some shooting in weather as cold as minus 30, which is a revelation. I would just as soon have a hand grenade as an SA trigger under those circumstances! You can't feel anything.
For these and other reasons I am still a DA revolver person.
------------------
Mr. Foote,
Thanks for the kind words. I should have also added that, all semi-auto pistol talk aside, there are a lot of positive things to be said for a good ole medium frame revolver too. I was initiated to handguns with the model 10 S&W and I could speedload and fire one in my sleep, I think (figuratively speaking). Revolvers: safe, reliable, accurate, durable, etc. What a shame about S&W. They did a bad, bad thing.
-10'
Thanks for the kind words. I should have also added that, all semi-auto pistol talk aside, there are a lot of positive things to be said for a good ole medium frame revolver too. I was initiated to handguns with the model 10 S&W and I could speedload and fire one in my sleep, I think (figuratively speaking). Revolvers: safe, reliable, accurate, durable, etc. What a shame about S&W. They did a bad, bad thing.
-10'
I prefer guns that have consistent trigger pulls. I find it hard to shoot two quick, accurate shots from a DA/SA semi-auto. I'm not saying it can't be done (John Farnum is proof of that...), but it does take a committment to training.
I like M1911s the best (the ergonomics just work for me), but my Kahr's (striker-fired) are more reliable. I don't care for Glock's as much, but that's mostly due to the sproing when the striker releases, rather than the action itself.
Any of the actions (DA/SA, SA, DAO, striker-fired) will work. All of them have advantages and disadvantages.
M1911
I like M1911s the best (the ergonomics just work for me), but my Kahr's (striker-fired) are more reliable. I don't care for Glock's as much, but that's mostly due to the sproing when the striker releases, rather than the action itself.
Any of the actions (DA/SA, SA, DAO, striker-fired) will work. All of them have advantages and disadvantages.
M1911
i prefer most glocks triggers but between DA/SA and DAO i'd choose a DA/SA. i don't own a DAO pistol but i own numberous DA handguns. i like how glocks have a consistant trigger pull but if it was as heavy and long as most DAO's then i wouldn't like them as much.
DAO handguns do have lighter and smoother triggers than DA guns. for example the beretta 92D has a lighter pull than the 92FS. i installed a 92D triggerspring in my 92G Elite (the Elite 2 comes from the factory this way) to lighten the DA pull. however i can't get off precision shots as easily with a DAO gun and with a DA gun i have the option of a SA pull.
DAO handguns do have lighter and smoother triggers than DA guns. for example the beretta 92D has a lighter pull than the 92FS. i installed a 92D triggerspring in my 92G Elite (the Elite 2 comes from the factory this way) to lighten the DA pull. however i can't get off precision shots as easily with a DAO gun and with a DA gun i have the option of a SA pull.