Don't drop slide or will ruin sear?

B

Banzai

New member
In reference to 1911 pistol, I've heard all sorts of things. Will dropping the slide on an empty chamber ruin the sear? How, then, do you return the slide to battery if the chamber is empty, or are you doomed to forever having a locked back slide when storing a 1911? :D
And just what does "..dropping the slide.." mean? Is this allowing it to slam home, or any action that returns the slide to the foremost position?
I know that this may seem like a battle of syntax, but in investigating a few smiths locally, all of them waranted their action jobs "...until some knucklehead drops the slide on an empty chamber..", and none of the 3 could agree on just what their definitions were!! :eek:
Some one please set me straight here!

:confused:

Tom



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A "Miss" is the ultimate overpenetration!
You can never be too rich, too skinny, or too well armed!
 
I've heard this too. To keep from harming the sear or to keep from having a 'slam-fire', 1. hold the trigger to the rear when letting the slide go home (I don't like this because I believe your finger shouldn't touch the trigger UNTIL you are ready to fire). 2. With you weak thumb hold the hammer down when allowing the slide to slam home or when chambering a round (this kinda makes it a 'target' gun only, if the trigger is that fragile I don't care to own it).
Robb

[This message has been edited by Robb (edited May 19, 2000).]
 
Dropping the slide on an empty chamber is said to create hammer bounce which is hard on the polished engagement surfaces of the sear and hammer , the theory is a cartridge in the chamber will buffer this during firing [the slide shuts against brass instead of steel to steel , thus reducing the shock]. To return the slide to battery with an empty chamber simply pull the slide back with the mag removed and the slide release will drop and the slide can be eased forward , or depress the slide release while holding the slide and ease the slide forward . To me "dropping the slide" means hitting the slide release and letting the slide slam shut on an empty chamber . Good luck , Mike...
 
Banzai, dropping the slide on an empty chamber isn't good for anything. I can't really say that it causes any problems with the sear or hammer. The part that is most affected is the extractor. It's the quickest way to kill one. George
 
My 'smith told me to never drop the slide on an empty chamber (1911). Don't know if their is any truth to this or not, but he told me you get 3 chances at this... 3rd time screws up a fine tuned trigger job. His source of the 3 drops as from Bill Wilson.
All the above applies to letting the slide slam home. Guiding it shut by hand is perfectly fine.
 
As far as damaging the sear is concerned, it doesn't matter if the chamber is empty or not, or whether you hold the trigger or not. What do the "experts" think happens when the gun is fired? The hammer drops on the sear much faster then than when just releasing the slide.

If the trigger is extremely light, dropping the slide without holding the trigger can allow the hammer to fall and the sear to drop into the half cock notch. The reason is that when the barrel stops on the slide stop pin, and the slide goes into battery, the gun moves forward. The trigger, loose in the frame, tends to remain where it is (see old Isaac about this), and so moves back relative to the frame, thus "pulling itself". This is the reason for light plastic or aluminum triggers in match guns.

Jim
 
Here's a direct quote from SM&A, rather well known gunsmiths. These guys have done a number of guns for me, including one of my 1911's. Mac Scott seems to think that allowing the slide to slam on an empty chamber is bad, and I trust his opinion a bunch. You may want to re-think allowing folks to do this to your guns.

"Trigger work is a necessity on any serous definsive 1911 pistol. All trigger jobs guaranteed until "Zippy the Pinhead" lets the slide slam home on an empty chamber. "
 
You can drop the slide on an empty chamber and dry fire the pistol as many times as you want. Unless the design is deffective or the gunsmith does not know what he is talking about.
 
I swanee, I'm gonna write a book: "Problems I've Never Had With A 1911".

The hammer-sear engagement will get a much stronger jolt during recoil than from pressing the slide release.

Some competition trigger-jobs will allow "follow" to the half-cock position when the slide is released to freely return to battery. I fail to see how this can hurt the sear's engagement surface. The movement is slow compared to normal lock time. The mechanism for undue wear is unknown to me--doesn't mean it can't exist, but it sure ain't obvious.

George, how can the extractor be hurt? Does the tip of it actually hit the barrel?

My problem is that I've been doing Bad Things to 1911s for 50 years, and nothing's ever busted or gone bad...

Damfino, Art
 
The extractor should not be harmed by letting a slide drop on an empty chamber, nor should the sear.

When the gun fires, the recoiling slide slams the hammer back, causing it to come away from the slide and bounce off the grip safety. It bounces back until it strikes the bottom of the firing pin tunnel on the slide (look for a dent in that area), then it rides the fast moving slide until the slide bounces off the recoil spring guide and begins moving forward. That bounce gives the slide a much faster forward motion than it ever gets from a manual release. When the slide clears the hammer, the hammer drops hard on the sear. This drop is harder than any that occurs when manually releasing the slide. The "cushioning" of feeding a round has little effect.

Dropping the slide will not harm the hammer, the sear, or any other part of the gun, since the gun takes a far worse beating when being fired. The part that does take a beating is the internal pin part of the slide stop. It has to bring the whole shebang to a screeching halt.

Jim
 
George Stringer is nuts on. It's a good idea to "ride the slide" on ANY semi-automatic handgun when the chamber is or will be empty (No loaded mag in gun).

It's safe and simple to do and just one more thing you can do to add to the lifespan of your weapon.

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
One more thing Banzai: anytime I allow anyone to handle a semi-auto I am privileged and blessed to own, I make it clear not to drop the slide on an empty chamber or mag ahead of time.

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
Jim Keenan
You are forgetting one thing when you say the slide is reacting far more violently from actual firing than when you just let the slide go with the slide stop. When firing the gun it is recoiling back so that the slide is moving slower relative to the also moving frame. With all due respect to you I think I will take Bill Wilson's advice rather than yours.
 
Hi, Skeeter,

Feel free to take anyone's advice. I will note that many people who know the pistol well from a standpoint of accurizing and working on, don't understand the dynamics of the parts and pieces when actually firing. One well known writer on the pistol doesn't seem to really know how it works, if his book is any indication.

Jim
 
I hasten to point out that your generalization that gunsmiths don't know the dynamics of the 1911 seems to fly in the face of logic! How do you come to such a conclusion?

You say: "One well known writer on the pistol doesn't seem to really know how it works, if his book is any indication."

One huge point, let's not confuse gun writers with gunsmiths, there is a world of difference between the two! I'll agree that a significant number of gun writers don't know the muzzle from the magazine, but we're talking about nationally recognized gunsmiths, a totally different breed.
 
Johnwill, re-read what Jim said. The fact that somebody can stone a sear or do excellent machine work on a pistol does not necessarily mean they fully understand the internal happenings.

Not all gunsmiths are also designers. Lots of guys can build good guns, but have not even a semblance of John Browning's understanding of the inter-relationships of the mechanism.

Similarly, I've known a lot of guys who could do good work in building a race-motor, but could not begin to understand a conversation about the effects of advancing or retarding the cam-timing. Or explain how to calculate the length of individual exhaust header-pipes, tuned for best extraction at some certain rpm-range.

No big deal, but Jim's statement is accurate.

:), Art
 
I still will take the word of virtually all major gunsmiths that dropping the slide on an empty chamber will damage a match tuned trigger job over a casual comment in this forum.
 
Hi, Johnwill,

Just for fun, ask the gunsmiths what causes the Browning 1911 type pistol to function.

Will it work if the barrel is blocked and the bullet can't move?

Jim
 
I can't see the "fun" in this, if you really want to know how the 1911 functions, I'd suggest Kuhnhausen's fine pair of books on the 1911. As for what this has to do with the topic at hand, I have no idea.
 
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