DOJ Position is No Citizens has a right to bear arms

Waitone

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For those of us who were asleep, the following site provides a real eye-opener when it comes to the Department of Justice's true attitude toward citizens possessing arms. If you are up on Emerson, skip this thread. Otherwise enjoy
http://www.gunweek.com/

DOJ Claims No Individual Right to Arms During Oral Arguments in Emerson Case


The Clinton Administration’s Department of Justice (DOJ) claimed that there is no constitutional right for any individual American to possess firearms of any kind during oral arguments before a three-judge panel of the 5th US Circuit Court of Appeals, which was reviewing a lower court decision in US v Emerson.

Even membership in a National Guard unit does not confer a right to keep arms at home, Assistant US Attorney William B. Mateja told the judges during the June 13 hearing in New Orleans.

The government’s position seemed to startle even the judges who were questioning attorneys for Dr. Timothy Joe Emerson and the government, which had appealed the pro-rights decision of federal District Court Judge Sam Cummings in a gun case that percolated up from a simple divorce proceeding in Texas.

The case stems from Cummings’ March 30, 1999 ruling in Emerson's claims that his arrest was unconstitutional. Emerson was arrested while under a restraining order (RO) from his estranged wife for violation of the Lautenberg provisions of federal law, prohibiting a person under such an order from possessing a firearm.

In his initial trial held in Cummings’ court, Emerson claimed the federal statute he was charged under violated his Second and Fifth Amendment rights, as well as the 10th Amendment to the US Constitution.

While Cummings’ decision upheld the statute under the 10th Amendment, it ruled that the law in question, 18 USC, §922 (g)(8), was indeed a violation of Emerson's Second and Fifth Amendment rights.

The three judges hearing the appeals arguments in June were: William Garwood, appointed by President Reagan; Harold R. DeMoss Jr., appointed by President Bush, and Robert M. Parker, appointed by President Clinton.

Two pro-gun observers in the New Orleans courtroom—Linda Thomas of Houston, a recent law school graduate, and Tom Gresham, host of the "Gun Talk" radio show—reported that the judges gave the Second Amendment and related constitutional questions a "fair and thorough" airing.

"The judges had done their homework," Thomas said. "It was like sitting in on a Gun Rights Policy Conference legal seminar."

"The three-judge panel asked tough questions," Gresham reported.

Thomas and Gresham both reported that the judges appeared incredulous that the government was saying that no one has a right to own guns, and that the Second Amendment guarantees only the right of the National Guard to own guns.

Garwood said to Mateja: "You are saying that the Second Amendment is consistent with a position that you can take guns away from the public? You can restrict ownership of rifles, pistols and shotguns from all people? Is that the position of the United States?"

Meteja replied: "Yes!"

Garwood followed up: "Is it the position of the United States that persons who are not in the National Guard are afforded no protections under the Second Amendment?"

Meteja: "Exactly."

Meteja then said that even membership in the National Guard isn't enough to protect the private ownership of a firearm.

Garwood asked: "Membership in the National Guard isn't enough? What else is needed?"

Meteja: "The weapon in question must be used in the National Guard."

In other words, the Justice Department claims, no one, even if a member of the National Guard, has a right to own guns privately. That argument clearly supports what Handgun Control Inc. and the Clinton Administration has been saying all along—there is no right to the means for self-defense. They have maintained that position, even while claiming that they do not want to take away hunting and sporting rifles, shotguns and pistols.

The Emerson case could prove to be pivotal to the individual right to keep and bear arms. Regardless of how the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals rules, one side or the other is expected to appeal to the Supreme Court. Should the high court decide to consider the case, the court’s decision is expected to provide a definitive interpretation of what the Second Amendment really means. For a complete background on the Emerson case, including the original decision by Cummings and all of the defense and government briefs—as well as amicus briefs on both sides which more thoroughly argue specific legal issues, see the Second Amendment Foundation web site: http://www.saf.org/EmersonViewOptions.html.

A more detailed story will appear in the July 1, 2000 issues of The New Gun Week.

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Gov't responses to questions by the judge are quite interesting. There is no place for Clinton's people to hide.



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Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.

Barry Goldwater--1964
 
The government's arguments in this case are absolutely unsupported by prior decisions of the Supreme Court. Hence the judges' tone of wonder and disbelief.

Just more shame on the pile already there.

[This message has been edited by Ledbetter (edited June 27, 2000).]
 
Especially since the national guard didn't even exist when the Bill of Rights was passed by the states.
 
The DOJ attorney who made this argument violated the rules of ethics by advocating a legal position that he KNEW was false.
 
When was it created? I looked at their web site and according to them,they have been around since the 1600's

Thanks,
madison46

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RHC:
Especially since the national guard didn't even exist when the Bill of Rights was passed by the states.[/quote]
 
Actually, I'm glad the DOJ is voicing this opinion. It is clearly wrong, and needs to be addressed once and for all by the nation's highest court. I'm tired of all this dilly-dallying around by a bunch of weak-kneed bureaucratic judges who aren't willing to pass down a politically incorrect ruling that abides by the Constitution and by socialist politicians that think they are not beholden to the Bill of Rights. Let's get this issue settled NOW.

If the Supreme Court aplies proper jurisprudence to this case and rules against the govt., we can finally shove a lot of the gun-control garbage we noe have on the books back down the throats of the liberal slime who came up with it. If they don't, and effectively eliminate the 2nd Amendment, God help the US of A when the resultant civil war breaks out.
 
There are a number of perfectly fine, stout tree appropriate for hanging traitorous, treasonous turdballs like Mr. Meteja within walking distance of DOJ and the Federal Court bldgs in DC . . . How did an idiot like that get in a position like that? Did this clown ever study American history? How did he get a law degree? Disgusting.
M2
 
The National Guard as we know it today was created, that is, federalized with the Dick Military Act of 1903.

If you go to USC Title 10 you will still see the organized militia (the NG) and the unorganized militia (the rest of us).

The position recently stated by the federal attorneys, while shocking, is not a new one. I recall reading an articl where a federal attorney stated the same thing early in the Clinton years.

I thank them for reminding us of their arrogance.

Rick
 
Governments once said that a woman had no right to vote or own property. Ditto Black people. Just because the government says something, that doesn't make it right.

These clowns, by stating their untenable position, may have provided an opportunity for a judge to get it into case law that people have the right to a means of self defense.
 
I think the Govt. may have really misplayed their hand on this one. With the exchange between the judges and the Govt. Attorney it seems that he has almost forced the court to rule on the Second Amend. This bodes well for us. Then again, if we lose at the SCOTUS level - well I guess it will begin.

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Thane (NRA GOA JPFO SAF CAN)
MD C.A.N.OP
tbellomo@home.com
http://homes.acmecity.com/thematrix/digital/237/cansite/can.html
www.members.home.net/tbellomo/tbellomo/index.htm
"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression.
In both instances there is a twilight when everything remains
seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all
must be most aware of change in the air - however slight -
lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."
--Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas
 
Nothing but lies and distortion of the truth spews from the Clinton controlled government agencies anymore. No wonder we have no respect for or belief in them anymore. Let's hope Bush gets in and can somehow start to turn this BS around!
 
Typical liberal/socialist bilge. Watch for the same thing from the Bush team not too long from now.

[This message has been edited by Munro Williams (edited June 29, 2000).]
 
If this thing went to the Supreme Court and it was ruled that the Second Amendment was a collective right rather than an indivdual right, would that mean that all of the Bill of Rights are collective and thereby nule and void on a personal level?

Why would this have been allowed to go on for over two hundred years if the Constitution did not recognize the inalienable, God-given right to bear arms?

The scary thing is that we are at the point that most will give up liberty for perceived financial security. The Clintons know this and that really ups the stakes.

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
I think that pissant attny. did us a huge favour--I showed those qoutes to some friends and family and they were outraged. It is imperative that as many people as possible see these transcripts. This could energize some fence sitters.
I don't think that attny would make that argument in open court without much support from higher up in the DOJ--he may not believe it at all--he could have marching orders.
 
I don't doubt that this man has the full support of higer ups, all the way to Reno and Clinton and Gore. But if he does not believe in the truth of these enormous and frightful things he is saying, he is truly the moral scum of the earth.
I think he should be disbarred in any case. Lawyers are not allowed to go before a court of law and lie. No matter if he believes in this perverted cause or is just following orders, I do not believe that an American lawyer can make such statements honestly, and apparently the appellate judges in this case cannot believe it either. They gave him ample opportunity to retract his mis-statements and he refused.
 
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