Dogs on public trails

Status
Not open for further replies.
L

longranger

New member
This past week I spent 4 days and 3 nights in the Cloud Peak Wilderness/Circle Park trail loop here in Wyoming.

I have been aware that dogs were allowed in the wilderness area(a shame)and this area is popular and recieves fairly heavy use by families and groups as big as 4-8 people.

Over the 4 days I experienced contact on the trail(15 mile loop)with 5 different dogs with their owners.Of those 5 only 1 was what I would call "friendly".Once the dog recognized what I was she was fine,a less than a year old Lab puppy.None were on leashes.

Now the other 4 is where I have concerns, individual encounters with 3 on the trail and one encounter with 2 dogs in the parking lot of the trailhead.
I will term these dogs as "flatlander dogs",these dogs have no experience or very limited experience with meeting hikers on forest/backcountry trails.Surprising each other on the trail has been anxious for me and the dogs.The dogs will 90% of the time take a defensive posture and show aggression until the owner either catches up the dog or the dog realizes I am no threat.

On my return trip to the trailhead parking lot I had just stepped off the trial onto asphalt parking lot. When 2 Lab/cross dogs come from behind pickup parked in the lot with it's tonneau cover up.Immeadiately the female pins her ears back and is growling and showing her teeth.The male circles behind me,I do not see the owner,I assume he's at the back of his truck readying his gear.I am carrying a 65lb pack and a Simms walking stick,the female creeps forward still growling and showing teeth.She gets close enough for me to poke her in the mouth/nose area with walking stick.

I finally yell to get the attention of who I think the owner is,he walks from behind the truck and yells at his dogs.The male who was never a problem goes right over to his owner.The female is paying no attention to his commands until he starts to walk over and catches her up and puts her into his truck.Then turns to me and says "I don't think she likes your stick" I say "I don't like getting %^$#%#@ bit,you are lucky I did not shoot your dog".I walk to my truck and drop my pack, a little shaken.

My experience with dogs on the trail deteriorated rather quickly and I made few obsevations regarding dogs in the woods.
1. Keep them on damn leash unless they are working dogs(never had problem with a ranch dog,because they are working)
2.If you are a dog owner and walk the public trails with your dog off leash, should your dog decide to be rude on the trail.If you demonstate in the first minute you are incompetent in controlling your dog. I will shoot your dog if threatened.
3. I will from now on open carry my revolver when in the wilderness area.(I had a revolver with me, buried in my pack)

I have checked with the 3 Law Enforcement Agencies that would or could have jurisdiction.I have been assured If threatened I can protect myself.
I don't think I have over stated my position on this matter,I see alot of young families doing back packing trips and the like with their kids.
I think NPS has a bad policy allowing dogs in Wilderness Areas,it really destroys the experience of the wilderness.
 
One problem here, is, you're saying the same thing about dogs and behavior that some folks say about guns and behavior. In both cases, the proposed cure is, "Ban 'em!"

"Wilderness experience"? Back when it was truly wilderness and there were few man-made trails, instead of dogs it could have been grizzlies or hostile Indians.

It's not a dog problem; it's a people problem. They didn't properly train Nice Doggie to remain under control.

I agree about a leash requirement, and I'd certainly favor open carry, even without any dog problem. FWIW, if my dog gratuitously attacked somebody, I'd be unhappy were he shot, but I don't feel I'd have cause for anger at the shooter...
 
Same

I second what Art has stated, I own EBD's, Evil (american) Bull Dog's, and are usually mistaken for Pitbulls, another misunderstood breed, if my dog gets aggressive defend yourself! If my dog assumes a defensive stance than treat it like you would any other animal on the trail and quietly back-away!!

Leash Law, Sure I might not obey it, my dogs deserve to run free just like any other animal, but it gives you or anybody else legal and justified reason to defend yourself and yours!

Careful on the Ban'em string of thought!

Don't shoot the gun, Shoot the person wielding it.
Don't shoot the dog... Well, maybe not shoot but you get the idea!

Mike

My freedom of responsible dog ownership is no different than OUR freedom of responsible gun ownership!
 
Last edited:
I had two German Shepherd trained to do it all .
But they were also escape artist. I would tell the neighbors to SHOOT them if they saw them running free. Because I knew what they were capable of.


Keep them on a leash if you want to keep them alive I.M.O.


Rottweiler's don't like people that smell like German Shepherds.
Your pets scent on you maybe a deciding factor in the strange dogs behavior. Or just the way you smell.
 
Leash Law, Sure I might not obey it, my dogs deserve to run free just like any other animal, but it gives you or anybody else legal and justified reason to defend yourself and yours!
Click to expand...


The problem is the owners,can't ban the people at a minimum an enforced leash law would fix the problem,there is no leash requirement.I refuse to let your dog determine the boundries of a public trail.I am not backing up a trail that I just came down because you have beligerent dog.Now a wild animal,bear, lion, wolf I will certainly back up and give them space.Your domestic dog will recieve no such consideration when in a threatening posture,you get control of your dog and back off the trail so as I may pass safely.If you know your dog has an aggressive attitude toward people put them on a leash and possibly save it's life.You do not want to extend any coutesy on the trail regarding your dogs, expect the same.
Were you the @##hole in the parking lot?
 
Last edited:
One problem here, is, you're saying the same thing about dogs and behavior that some folks say about guns and behavior. In both cases, the proposed cure is, "Ban 'em!"
Click to expand...
Since getting out of the service, I have never had any problems with someone elses guns. However, I have had more than my share of problems with someone elses dogs. Seems that too many dog owners, want to share thier good times with me and I'm not interested. Some dogs should be and are banned but for the most part, I would not ban them but control is another matter. I don't even appreciate them crapping in my yard.
It's only a matter of time that someone is going to get hurt and it's sad that it takes a few bad encounters before they make the fix. Guns don't kill people but dogs do bite them, don't they?

Oh, I forgot to add that I do have scars from a PPKS slide-bite. ... :eek:


Be Safe !!!
 
Last edited:
I've got some mixed feelings on this.

Leash Law, Sure I might not obey it...
Click to expand...

IMO, you should.

It's not a dog problem; it's a people problem...
Click to expand...

Breaking the leash law goes back to 'a people problem'.

If there's a leash law, it should be obey'ed and dogs don't have the 'right' to run free it there's laws against it. Dogs/animals rights don't trump people's rights.

Unfortunately people not obeying leash laws is what usually gets dogs completely banned from public places that once allowed leashed dogs.
 
It's not a dog problem; it's a people problem
Click to expand...
Bingo Art.

While I do have mixed feelings on whether or not a mandatory leash law is necessary. A "You must control your dog law" is.
I once had my lab pup heeled up, walking a trail. Had a mom, pop, little kid group come out of the trees 100yds ahead, They had a large mature husky which immediately bolted to us. Pop didn't even call to his dog. When it pounced on my pup, he got the size 10.5 deterrent device which backflipped him back. Again, not really the dog's fault but there was only one thing which was going to keep my dog from getting bitten at that moment.
He yelped his way back to Pop. I heeled my dog back up and continued. They held their dogs collar as I passed.
People rarely control their animals in the forest. Many don't believe they belong.
One thing to consider. Multipile use laws continue to get more restrictive on people. I'm not sure they are as complete concerning animals. Example: The Rubicon 4wd trail in Ca. You must pack all of your refuse(including your own feces) out when exiting the trail. I'm not sure I have seen those rules concerning pets..
elkman06

Edit: Consider the marauding dogs thread in the rifle pages..Does the idea of a loose dog equate to anything similar to the thoughts towards feral dogs. Can they do less damage to you or me than a feral dog?????
 
I like the woods, all my dogs have liked the woods. All my dogs learned early to obey voice and hand signals and all my dogs were people dogs which means they never met a hand they didn't like. If a dog is uncontrollable keep him to home.

If your dog has a problem with people leash him or keep him to home. If your dog isn't controllable in unfamiliar places by voice or hand signals than leash him. If your dog takes a defensive or an aggressive position to me on a public trail and I am in fear of getting bit your dog has a problem not me. If you have a problem with that then you have a problem with me, I do not have a problem.
 
The blah blah blah in the parking lot!

Ha Ha Ha, big words buddy!

What if I am the Rectum in the truck, remember it takes a minute to close a bed cover!

LOL, got ya, ha ha ha!

No I am not!

All the people who are against dogs on trails have not asked if I, or anybody else, know anything about dogs or temperament or how to properly train one! Not surprising really I expect it from ignorant people! If my dog was aggressive I would not ever let him off leash. Most people who are scared of dogs are fearful of dogs for the same reason the Anti's are scared of guns!!

Oh Ya, it says east coast right near my name, that would add with the fact that I have not posted anything about hunting in WY that would tell any logically thinking human that it was not me in the parking lot!

Love It!
 
Bear spray is nice non-lethal alternative to shooting someone's dog that may have felt threatened by you and your big stick. Why are you poking the dog in the mouth? One good "bop" on the top of the nose will send them on their way
 
Shooting a dog because it shows signs of aggression with its owner 50 feet back is purely stupid, how would you feel if your dog walked up to someone with its tail up and it barked and someone put a bullet in its head, you cant go around shooting random dogs and I think your way over reacting, I side with you that most dogs should be on leashes but unless your getting actively attacked by a dog it would be border line paranoia to just shoot a dog that growls at you. Instead of shooting a dog maybe you could kindly recommend to the owner that you should keep your dog on a leash or it could end up bitting someone or something along those lines, your not going to win over anyones hearts by shooting there dog.
 
Big difference between a barking dog and one with neck hair up and tail down. Any dog person will recognize that.
 
Big difference between a barking dog and one with neck hair up and tail down. Any dog person will recognize that.
Click to expand...

And don't make it worst on yourself by looking into the dogs eyes in that situation .
 
Here's something that will open you dog owners eyes and non owners.

Go to your local club and take a few bites ( with the right protective gear on )
form some of these Animals ( trained dogs ).Then let the experience sink in just like their teeth . Then repost your thoughts.


http://www.germanshepherddog.com/
 
As usual, every one looks at the problem from their own perspective.

Keep your damned dogs on leashes, because even the most innocent encounter can turn ugly. My dog, who was an angel around people, hated other dogs with the sort of passion that could only be called political She never went anywhere unleashed or unfenced. More times than I want to count, she was accosted by some unleashed loser who got his butt handed to him.

On a public trail, some pair of morons with a stupid little critter running loose passed us, and the dog sniffed mine in the butt, mine nearly killed it, and they were outraged. WHOSE FAULT WAS IT? the moronic old farts who allowed a dog to run loose, around a perfectly well behaved and leashed animal. I've been accosted and attacked by dogs a half dozen times, once my wife was even set upon and bitten by a pack.

I dont care how sweet your dog is, there are phobic people, there are other dogs, and there are circumstances that will force an encounter on a PUBLIC trail that you don't own into an ugly situation. it will be YOUR fault, not the other person's. Period.

People should mace any dog running in public that presents as a threat. I was shooting my .38 in a nice little niche in a mining area, when suddenly two huge weimaraners showed up at my back, bristled, and started barking, and left me wondering how 6 rounds of wad cutter would save my butt. Eventually, the vacuous twit of a 20 something yuppie chick who had released her dogs to range free came looking for them, about 5 seconds before I put a chest shot into the closest one. I reamed her, she reamed me, and she called the sheriff's office to have me arrested.

Free range dogs are illegal in just about any civilized area, for a good reason. They aren't predictable, they are prone to violence and criminal behavior, and they are a threat to the populace. A dog that bites should be put down, period. the owner should be prosecuted. Nobody has the right to complain if their free range dog gets into trouble.
 
BTW, if a person shoots a threatening dog, once that dog stops twitching, the gun needs to be on the possible meth head who brought his guard dog into the woods to protect him from other psychopaths while he walks into the woods to check his Marijuana patch or portable meth lab.

shooting any person who draws a gun after an already hostile attack by his dog would be a justified shooting in a lot of jurisdictions, as a dog trained to attack is already legally considered a weapon, and the attack by the dog is provocation enough to fire at the handler if any other provocation or assault is committed.

.After all the bullcrap I've put up with from irresponsible dog owners (one of the idiots actually had the nerve to chain his jack russel terrier in a manner that gave it full access to the sidewalk, and it bit my wife) I have no more sympathy. I kicked that dog hard enough to break ribs. A woman that I know and love who is my neighbor was attacked by a great dane, along with her leashed dog. She was hospitalized, her cairn terrier was totally eviscerated.

I biked through my neigborhood for days, packing a concealed .357, and was going to kill that thing on sight. I never found it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top