I've been reloading 12 and 20 ga for clays for several years I'm considering doing the same for pistols and 5.56 to save some money. As I am looking up prices for stuff, I find good deals online for bullets and once fired brass. However, the brass seems to be a mixture of stuff from different manufacturers and the bullets are generic. I am only reloading for the cost saving, not accuracy or any type of improved performance however I do want them to be consistent enough to be useable at the range. I know from my shot shell reloading that I can't swap out different hulls and wads without changing the pressure of the load. Is that a concern with pistol and rifle as well? If I get a shipment of mixed brass do I need to sort it and develop different loads for the different brass? Also, do I need a load that is specific to my particular bullet or will all FMJ bullets of the same weight be interchangeable. Thanks for you help in keeping all my fingers in the right place.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Does the brand of bass and bullets matter?
- Thread starter berudd
- Start date
boondocker385
New member
For me, i am fine with most types of brass and bullets for plinking. Some will tell you "avoid xxxxxx because it sucks". On once fired military brass, you can run into pocket problems that require swaging. One of the 223 gurus will come along and explain it.
I find bullets to be a different story. Some are better built (exact diameter, round) than others. I use lead and jacketed. Not a big fan of plated, but many are. I probably am not the best Reloader and if I had more patience and experience might like plated.
I find bullets to be a different story. Some are better built (exact diameter, round) than others. I use lead and jacketed. Not a big fan of plated, but many are. I probably am not the best Reloader and if I had more patience and experience might like plated.
Scientific method step 1, guess
Step two formalize into a structured hypothesis.
.
.
Last step, be proved wrong.
As individuals we do not have time, money, nor effort to do a controlled test of all the handloading variables and rituals.
Nor is the handloading folklore presented to us like science and engineering.
The manufacturers give us cook book information.
We cannot rule out the null hypothesis on folklore accuracy rituals, so we have to do some of them.
Which brings me to where I am now in choosing bullets and brass.
I have system, it seems to be working....
1960s Tareyton cigarette TV commercial
I'd rather fight, than switch.
Yes, I would rather fight than switch.... except when it is not working.
I have 5 tags. In two months I will fill them with Nosler bullets.
No other brand could possibly work.
Step two formalize into a structured hypothesis.
.
.
Last step, be proved wrong.
As individuals we do not have time, money, nor effort to do a controlled test of all the handloading variables and rituals.
Nor is the handloading folklore presented to us like science and engineering.
The manufacturers give us cook book information.
We cannot rule out the null hypothesis on folklore accuracy rituals, so we have to do some of them.
Which brings me to where I am now in choosing bullets and brass.
I have system, it seems to be working....
1960s Tareyton cigarette TV commercial
I'd rather fight, than switch.
Yes, I would rather fight than switch.... except when it is not working.
I have 5 tags. In two months I will fill them with Nosler bullets.
No other brand could possibly work.
Bullets, yes it matters. Brass, much less so, if at all. I bought a bunch of 147 gr. military surplus bullets to get used to loading my then new-to-me Garand. I didn't know if my reloading or my shooting was responsible for poor grouping. I tried same loads but with "good" bullets (Hornady A-Max) and my groups shrunk considerably. I'm a careful reloader and I try to keep my loads as consistent as possible and often notice the difference when a component is changed. (I never reload "just for plinking" because why shoot if I am not able to hit what I'm shooting at with sloppy reloads?).
Thank for the replies. I am mostly concerned with safety. If I read a recipe for, say 9mm with a Hornady 124 gr FMJ bullet will I be safe I substitute with a generic bullet? With shotguns there is no "working up a load" because we don't really have any signs of approaching dangerous pressure like you do with metallic cartridges. So, I guess I if I start and the minimum load and work up, if necessary, I will be safe?
All bullets of the same weight will be interchangeable. So is brass unless you're shooting bench rest shooting. However, some brands of brass are known to be softer than others. Only means it doesn't last as long before primer pockets get too big. Not a safety issue in any way though.
"...shotguns there is no "working up a load"..." There is, just not in the same way. You're still looking for the best pattern/accuracy. Really no safety difference between loading shot shells and rifle/handgun ammo.
"...shotguns there is no "working up a load"..." There is, just not in the same way. You're still looking for the best pattern/accuracy. Really no safety difference between loading shot shells and rifle/handgun ammo.
Thanks, that's what I was looking for. Yeah, you are right about trying to achieve a good patter but go say the words "working up a load" on a shotgun reloading forum and the hens start to cluck at you. Never deviate from a published load if the mantra. Start talking about switching components, which I don't do, and you'll be warned against blowing your head off.
I will repeat what was said, brass is not a huge deal and less so in the 223.
I hated loading 223, gave it up, shoot bigger things now, more happy.
However, FC will wear out sooner and that is with minimum should bump back (o0nly if you use the round in the same gun and then you have to be careful in the semi autos)
Bullets yes, no bullet is better than others, high quality even in hunting.
Some rifles like Sierra (168 gr match is what I shoot mostly) some hate it. Many ok.
Almost ALL rifles prefer one or the other but it can be Hornady, Nossler, Sierra etc.
223 is quite varied, some follow the twist rules and some don't. You have to experiment.
Other than bullet (IMNSHO) the COAL is the biggest factor and again, semi auto may want it so long that the mag won't hold it (single load)
Brass Preference:
Lapua (costly but a good cost benefit ration) RP (good middle of the road brass) PPU about the same, Norma is good but very expensive, Nossler is just expensive, Winchester I have seen major vartions.
Lapua comes in box of 100, Hornady and Nossler 50 per package (so you have to do the match). Lapua treated right last a lot longer but that does mean annealing.
FC I would shoot once fired /range pickup until it went back (cracked case) then pitch it, I would not buy it.
Unless its a 223 bolt I would buy once fired, shoot it till it starts to go and then get another batch. RP is good price usually.
PM me, I have a lot of 223 that has been resized and would send for the cost of shipping. PPU if I remember rightly.
I hated loading 223, gave it up, shoot bigger things now, more happy.
However, FC will wear out sooner and that is with minimum should bump back (o0nly if you use the round in the same gun and then you have to be careful in the semi autos)
Bullets yes, no bullet is better than others, high quality even in hunting.
Some rifles like Sierra (168 gr match is what I shoot mostly) some hate it. Many ok.
Almost ALL rifles prefer one or the other but it can be Hornady, Nossler, Sierra etc.
223 is quite varied, some follow the twist rules and some don't. You have to experiment.
Other than bullet (IMNSHO) the COAL is the biggest factor and again, semi auto may want it so long that the mag won't hold it (single load)
Brass Preference:
Lapua (costly but a good cost benefit ration) RP (good middle of the road brass) PPU about the same, Norma is good but very expensive, Nossler is just expensive, Winchester I have seen major vartions.
Lapua comes in box of 100, Hornady and Nossler 50 per package (so you have to do the match). Lapua treated right last a lot longer but that does mean annealing.
FC I would shoot once fired /range pickup until it went back (cracked case) then pitch it, I would not buy it.
Unless its a 223 bolt I would buy once fired, shoot it till it starts to go and then get another batch. RP is good price usually.
PM me, I have a lot of 223 that has been resized and would send for the cost of shipping. PPU if I remember rightly.
When I started reloading 39 years ago I read a book, "The Complete Book of Practical Handloading" written by John Wooters. If you can get a copy, you won't be sorry.
Bench rest shooters separate brass by brand for accuracy in a given rifle, and I've pretty much stayed with Remington brass all these years just to avoid any inconsistencies if they really exist. I may use Winchester or Federal but only because that's what I started with in a given caliber at the time, or to separate loads for different rifles in the same caliber, e.g. my .270 vs my son's .270.
An explanation for not mixing brass in the same rifle you use is some brands are "thicker" than others and thus have less internal volume, so the same charge weight of powder would generate more pressure in the lower volume case and cause accuracy distortion. You can check this out by weighing two different brand empty fired cases (before depriming), then filling them with water, using a dropper at the end so that you form a convex "bubble" at the top of each one, then weigh them again. You might note difference in water weight which translates to a difference in internal volume.
I went through all this in the beginning and found it made more sense just to stick with one brand of case per rifle. You generally won't create a dangerous situation by mixing brass unless you happen to be pushing the envelope with maxmium/compressed loads, then the internal volume and increased pressure may play a role, but I've never seen any warnings in the manuals.
As far as bullets go, I agree with the other posters - these make a difference, not so much in causing a dangerous situation but certainly accuracy will differ. E.g., I have a Remington Model 700 .270 that gives me less than a 1-inch group at 100 yards only with Hornady 150gr Spire point bullets. My son has a Winchester Model 70 in .270 that does the same thing only with Speer 130gr flat base, not boat-tail, bullets.
It's much different than reloading for shotgun where the internal composition of the hull plays a role in choosing a wad.
Bench rest shooters separate brass by brand for accuracy in a given rifle, and I've pretty much stayed with Remington brass all these years just to avoid any inconsistencies if they really exist. I may use Winchester or Federal but only because that's what I started with in a given caliber at the time, or to separate loads for different rifles in the same caliber, e.g. my .270 vs my son's .270.
An explanation for not mixing brass in the same rifle you use is some brands are "thicker" than others and thus have less internal volume, so the same charge weight of powder would generate more pressure in the lower volume case and cause accuracy distortion. You can check this out by weighing two different brand empty fired cases (before depriming), then filling them with water, using a dropper at the end so that you form a convex "bubble" at the top of each one, then weigh them again. You might note difference in water weight which translates to a difference in internal volume.
I went through all this in the beginning and found it made more sense just to stick with one brand of case per rifle. You generally won't create a dangerous situation by mixing brass unless you happen to be pushing the envelope with maxmium/compressed loads, then the internal volume and increased pressure may play a role, but I've never seen any warnings in the manuals.
As far as bullets go, I agree with the other posters - these make a difference, not so much in causing a dangerous situation but certainly accuracy will differ. E.g., I have a Remington Model 700 .270 that gives me less than a 1-inch group at 100 yards only with Hornady 150gr Spire point bullets. My son has a Winchester Model 70 in .270 that does the same thing only with Speer 130gr flat base, not boat-tail, bullets.
It's much different than reloading for shotgun where the internal composition of the hull plays a role in choosing a wad.
In handgun ammo - mixing headstamps is fine / but as you know in shotshells it is not.
But there are some cases that are difficult to load - like Amerc and S&B....Primer pocket issues, hard to resize....
In handgun ammo you can interchange any small pistol primer for another brand....but 99% of guys I know use only CCI or Winchester primers....variety of issues with others.
Not all bullets are the same --- some are soft, some vary in weight a lot, some have different shapes....some are plated, some have thin plating like Rainier, some are thicker like Berry's, some are true jacketed bullets like Montana Gold....and recipes will vary for lead, plated, Berry's and jacketed.../ Montana gold is very consistent on weight & shape & very good quality....
Switching bullet shapes....even in same caliber and weight ....or switching mfg's of bullets may mean some adjustment in seating or final sizing die settings. RN, FP, JSP, JHP... can all be a little different in seating & crimp die settings....
Working up a load for range is not usually a big deal for handguns...at typical handgun ranges...pick a mid point between min & max and you are fine. Unlike shotguns published min and max might be as little as 0.4 grain.....so some attention to detail is recommended...
But there are some cases that are difficult to load - like Amerc and S&B....Primer pocket issues, hard to resize....
In handgun ammo you can interchange any small pistol primer for another brand....but 99% of guys I know use only CCI or Winchester primers....variety of issues with others.
Not all bullets are the same --- some are soft, some vary in weight a lot, some have different shapes....some are plated, some have thin plating like Rainier, some are thicker like Berry's, some are true jacketed bullets like Montana Gold....and recipes will vary for lead, plated, Berry's and jacketed.../ Montana gold is very consistent on weight & shape & very good quality....
Switching bullet shapes....even in same caliber and weight ....or switching mfg's of bullets may mean some adjustment in seating or final sizing die settings. RN, FP, JSP, JHP... can all be a little different in seating & crimp die settings....
Working up a load for range is not usually a big deal for handguns...at typical handgun ranges...pick a mid point between min & max and you are fine. Unlike shotguns published min and max might be as little as 0.4 grain.....so some attention to detail is recommended...
I disagree that cases are the same . By saying that you infer they are interchangeable . I disagree completely with that assumption or maybe I'm misunderstanding what some have said. I have all kinds of test data that shows different results just by changing cases in both pistol and rifle .
Are those differences to the point of unsafe ? Likely not although I do have some LC-14 308 cases that can only handle 41.5gr of powder with out getting sticky bolt lifts . While other cases I have can handle 43gr . All the same components except brass . I'll add H2o volume was .2gr less in the LC-14 cases ( should not be the issue ) . As Uncle Nick here at TFL help me see the issue is that the LC-14 cases are softer then the others . I've put 43gr in one and I could barely get the bolt open . Yet no other pressure signs are present . Primers look good , velocity was with in norms .
I've not finished this testing but it does appear these specific cases are softer then normal resulting in the inability to charge at the same levels as other brass . The silver lining is I found a really accurate load at 41gr pushing 168gr match bullet using those soft cases . The down side is it only clocks in at 2500fps . You really should be able to push a 168gr bullet to at least 2650fps with out issue , but these cases can not .
I also have data showing 223 cases CBC head stamp average over 100fps faster then 6 other head stamps in a mixed lot of cases . I first noticed there may be an issue while charging the cases . The CBC cases clearly filled more the the rest . After testing case volume after shooting . I found the CBC cases to have 2 full grains LESS of H2o volume then the others . Were those dangerous ? I don't think so but the cases certainly effected the performance .
My biggest issue I have right now with mixing pistol brass is case wall thickness . Resulting in inconsistent crimp . I've not been loading pistol nearly as long as rifle nor done anywhere near the amount of testing . So I have no data as to how much that effects performance . I'd say likely do to the fact I noticed the issue early in my hand gun loading and try to separate the thin walled cases from the thicker walled ones .
Are those differences to the point of unsafe ? Likely not although I do have some LC-14 308 cases that can only handle 41.5gr of powder with out getting sticky bolt lifts . While other cases I have can handle 43gr . All the same components except brass . I'll add H2o volume was .2gr less in the LC-14 cases ( should not be the issue ) . As Uncle Nick here at TFL help me see the issue is that the LC-14 cases are softer then the others . I've put 43gr in one and I could barely get the bolt open . Yet no other pressure signs are present . Primers look good , velocity was with in norms .
I've not finished this testing but it does appear these specific cases are softer then normal resulting in the inability to charge at the same levels as other brass . The silver lining is I found a really accurate load at 41gr pushing 168gr match bullet using those soft cases . The down side is it only clocks in at 2500fps . You really should be able to push a 168gr bullet to at least 2650fps with out issue , but these cases can not .
I also have data showing 223 cases CBC head stamp average over 100fps faster then 6 other head stamps in a mixed lot of cases . I first noticed there may be an issue while charging the cases . The CBC cases clearly filled more the the rest . After testing case volume after shooting . I found the CBC cases to have 2 full grains LESS of H2o volume then the others . Were those dangerous ? I don't think so but the cases certainly effected the performance .
My biggest issue I have right now with mixing pistol brass is case wall thickness . Resulting in inconsistent crimp . I've not been loading pistol nearly as long as rifle nor done anywhere near the amount of testing . So I have no data as to how much that effects performance . I'd say likely do to the fact I noticed the issue early in my hand gun loading and try to separate the thin walled cases from the thicker walled ones .
Last edited:
"I know from my shot shell reloading that I can't swap out different hulls and wads without changing the pressure of the load. Is that a concern with pistol and rifle as well? "
Yes
"If I get a shipment of mixed brass do I need to sort it and develop different loads for the different brass?"
For 5.56 mil spec rifle brass, there is probably value in sorting cases, but if they are same headstamp from different lots and years, consistency may still vary, perhaps just less so. If you are using mixed brass I would avoid max loads. If they are all truly once fired, and not machine gun fired, the main thing is consistency in processing and you should be good for plinking. Inspect the brass for neck splits and other problems as you use them. Get a good quality sizing die and a case gage (Dillon or similar) to as a check on specifications.
"Also, do I need a load that is specific to my particular bullet or will all FMJ bullets of the same weight be interchangeable. Thanks for you help in keeping all my fingers in the right place."
Bullet style and quality is in my experience the number one factor in accuracy. For .223 55 gr and 62 gr mil spec bullets will be similar, there will still be differences. If you're not running max loads, you should be able to use mil spec bullets of same weight almost interchangeably, but accuracy will vary. However for safety and sound practice, you should work up a load for a bullet then use caution when you change to another maker.
For handgun, things are different for semi auto vs revolver cartridges. If you need to crimp in a bullet groove or cannelure for safe revolver shooting, then consistent case length is important and you might have to trim with brass by different makers, maybe at least once.
Shooting range or once fired mixed brass in 9mm or .45 ACP and similar designs is pretty normal, but best if you know the source of the brass, and that they are truly once fired if advertised as such. A good taper crimp is what you need for them, best if done in separate final or 4th step. Trimming is almost never needed for 9mm, .45 ACP or similar design. Loads for same bullet style and wt can be virtually interchangeable, but again there will still be differences, and if up near a max load, use caution and precautions.
Yes
"If I get a shipment of mixed brass do I need to sort it and develop different loads for the different brass?"
For 5.56 mil spec rifle brass, there is probably value in sorting cases, but if they are same headstamp from different lots and years, consistency may still vary, perhaps just less so. If you are using mixed brass I would avoid max loads. If they are all truly once fired, and not machine gun fired, the main thing is consistency in processing and you should be good for plinking. Inspect the brass for neck splits and other problems as you use them. Get a good quality sizing die and a case gage (Dillon or similar) to as a check on specifications.
"Also, do I need a load that is specific to my particular bullet or will all FMJ bullets of the same weight be interchangeable. Thanks for you help in keeping all my fingers in the right place."
Bullet style and quality is in my experience the number one factor in accuracy. For .223 55 gr and 62 gr mil spec bullets will be similar, there will still be differences. If you're not running max loads, you should be able to use mil spec bullets of same weight almost interchangeably, but accuracy will vary. However for safety and sound practice, you should work up a load for a bullet then use caution when you change to another maker.
For handgun, things are different for semi auto vs revolver cartridges. If you need to crimp in a bullet groove or cannelure for safe revolver shooting, then consistent case length is important and you might have to trim with brass by different makers, maybe at least once.
Shooting range or once fired mixed brass in 9mm or .45 ACP and similar designs is pretty normal, but best if you know the source of the brass, and that they are truly once fired if advertised as such. A good taper crimp is what you need for them, best if done in separate final or 4th step. Trimming is almost never needed for 9mm, .45 ACP or similar design. Loads for same bullet style and wt can be virtually interchangeable, but again there will still be differences, and if up near a max load, use caution and precautions.