Does group size really matter?

[AC's & 45's]

I shoot at outdoor public ranges. They are set up so 25 yds. is the closest backstop. I suppose I could build or buy a target frame a set it up closer. I just haven't.
Consequently most of my pistol shooting is at the 25.
I do my best to shoot the tightest groups possible at the 25.
The other day I put 500 military rounds into three separate targets with a Officers ACP, a Gold Match and a CZ-75B.
I was using standard Hoppes NRA #B16 25yd slow fire pistol target. The 100- CZ and 200 Officers ACP rounds round were all over the paper, but all were on the paper. The 200 round from the kimber were all in the rings with the black center pretty much cut out. I always center the B16 target onto a ~3'x3' cardboard to watch for flyers.

I think this is perfectly adequate accuracy, particularly with my bad eyes and the wind trying to blow me around. I have never even felt the need to fire any of these pistols over sandbags. maybe some day.

With so many holes on a target it is ludricrous to suggest groups.

It seems most people on the various forums talk about shooting at 15 yards. I am assuming this is "combat range".

With my present level of accuracy at 25yrds, how should this translate to shorter ranges ?

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Kinda depends.

How much of that accuracy (or lack of it) is due to the guns and how much is due to the shooter?

You need to bench rest the guns (sandbags?) so you know their potential. Then you can determine what needs to be done next.

25 yards seems like a waste of time and its not particularly satisfying. To improve you need to SEE what you're doing to know what to fix/change in your methods. I'd suggest that you start closer and work up to the longer distances. (In real life, if you have to use a handgun to protect yourself, chances are its going to be 10' and not 75'...)

 

[Quantum Singularity]

What I do

For pure accuracy testing, I use a benchrest @ 25 yards. If a handgun can group under 2" @ 25 yards CONSISTENTLY, I am happy. If not, it will not be used for target shooting or competition.

To test combat accuracy, I do NOT use a benchrest and I only shoot between 7 to 15 yards. In testing for combat accuracy, I like to test at 7, 10, and 15 yards. I don't believe in a benchrest for combat accuracy since most people won't have the benchrest on them when the poop hits the fan. I don't measure groups for my "combat accuracy" testing. I just count the "A" zone hits (human sillouette target). I expect close to 75 percent "A" zone hits @ 15 yards, and at 7 yards I expect 100 percent "A" zone hits. I don't always get these results (mostly my fault--usu not the guns). When I get past 200 rounds I tend to tire and loose concentration (and my miss rate goes up). Any handgun that can hit the "A" very consistently is going to be a keeper (at least for self defense situations).

 

[Grapeshot]

well let's see ...

I benchrest my handguns to sight them in and to see which load is mechanically the most accurate. I used to benchrest at 25 yds. quite frequently, but any more it's only a formality, since I'm much more interested in PRACTICAL (offhand) accuracy these days. When I see a critter to shoot at, chances are there's not going to be a benchrest nearby, so I want to know how well I can shoot offhand.

How is this relevant to target distance?

Well, to tell you the truth, the more experience I get with plinking and hunting, the more I practice at 15 yds. or closer, since I am just not that good at hitting things reliably beyond that range due to my vision and just the overall sucky-ness of iron sights and their ability to "wash out" under field conditions. A bench rest and a white background are great, but again, never there when I see a squirrel or deer, so I just accept my limitations of range. Additionally, if it's a game animal, I want to get close so I can put a second or third round into it to put it down, and a moving target is easier when close.

IMHO, 25 yds. is 30/30 carbine range.

For combat, I focus on ranges between 2 - 21 feet, since nearly all self-defense takes place at that range, and since beyond that range it's pretty hard to prove "self-defense" in court.

In fact, ranges can be so close that you may even want to bolster your physical self-defense skills and weapon retention techniques. I say this because the only street thug I've ever encountered just seemed to pop up right there in my face - I guess violating my personal space zone was part of his plan to ambush me and throw me off balance (tactically). I didn't have a gun, but it was certainly point-shooting range. Smelling his liquored-up breath also caused me to seriously consider getting a small gun that could not be easily wrestled from me.