You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Does anyone have experience with a Vang-Comp System barrel
- Thread starter Tenshi
- Start date
oneounceload
Moderator
If you're talking about this work:
There are several folks who can do all that
The pattern will still depend on what the barrel is choked.....
The Vang Comp System (VCS), designed by gunsmith Hans J. Vang, is a set of modifications to shotgun barrels. The alterations to the barrel consist of lengthening the forcing cone, back-boring the barrel, and adding compensating ports. With the VCS, accuracy significantly improves, felt recoil is dramatically reduced, and muzzle rise diminishes. By lengthening the forcing cone, the pellets have a smooth flow from the chamber to the bore. This prevents the pellets from bunching up in the barrel and reduces the felt recoil. In addition, the pellets do not become as deformed and keep a more consistent shape.
There are several folks who can do all that
The pattern will still depend on what the barrel is choked.....
I took a Defensive Shotgun course, and the instructor had an 870 with a Vang Comp barrel. I shot it a bit, and we used it to compare patterns against the other shotguns in the course (all 870 Express with 20" IC barrels). While the 870s did quite well with certain brands of ammo, specifically reduced recoil Remington Law Enforcement, and Hornady low recoil, the Vang Comp rig shot everything with a very nice tight pattern. Stuff that patterned horribly in the Remington Barrels did very well in the Vang Comp unit. It just didn't seem to care what you fed it, it patterned very nicely.
If I understand it correctly, the Vang Comp barrels also have a form of jug choking as well as all the other stuff.
If I understand it correctly, the Vang Comp barrels also have a form of jug choking as well as all the other stuff.
oneounceload
Moderator
Not from what I read and posted - that paragraph above is from their home page; again, Seminole, Rhino, Briley, Rich Cole, among MANY others can do the same basic thing - but if it works for you, then the mental advantage is worth it
While I have no doubt that any of the firms mentioned can do comparable work consider this excerpt from the website:
So apparently there is something different on the Vang system.
No extra parts are added to the barrel. Thus, the VCS barrel requires no maintenance other than normal cleaning. Also, other types of specialty ammunition, such as slugs, can be used in the Vang Comp System. The VCS, developed to maximize performance of the tactical shotgun for Law Enforcement and Military applications, is covered by three U.S. Patents. Currently only Mr. Vang's Arizona facility produces the VCS.
So apparently there is something different on the Vang system.
I've heard lots of good things about it from various sources, but was wondering if anyone here has actually shot one and has had a chance to compare.
RoscoeC: That's consistent with what I've read... That it won't necessarily improve the pattern very much on high quality shells, but will dramatically improve the pattern on low quality shells. And since it is meant to be put on a cylinder bore barrel, it improves shot patterns while still letting you shoot slugs since the bore at the muzzle is still the same diameter.
RoscoeC: That's consistent with what I've read... That it won't necessarily improve the pattern very much on high quality shells, but will dramatically improve the pattern on low quality shells. And since it is meant to be put on a cylinder bore barrel, it improves shot patterns while still letting you shoot slugs since the bore at the muzzle is still the same diameter.
oneounceload
Moderator
but if it works for you, then the mental advantage is worth it
Hate to quote myself, but it is apropos.........
Tenshi, you can shoot slugs from any smoothbore with up to and including a full choke. The manual of mossberg guns says best slug performance with most slugs will be obtained with "improved cylinder" but many folks find their gun loves mod choke with some slugs for best accuracy...
This is for smooth bore barrels usin "non sabot" regular slugs.
Brent
This is for smooth bore barrels usin "non sabot" regular slugs.
Brent
StuntManMike
New member
I have a 18.5" with IC barrel with VCS. There is an across the board improvement in patterns with just about everything. The better 00BK loads saw the least improvement (6.75" down to 5" at 50'). The generic stuff saw more dramatic improvements (14" to 9" at 50'). The biggest difference came with 1BK. Groups shrank from over 18" to just over 10" at 50'.
The one exception is FliteControl ammo. It actually seems to pattern worse. I get about 5" groups with my non-VCS barrel. With the VCS barrel I get 7.5"
From what I hear this is common with VCS barrels. The common theory as to why this happens is that FliteControl does not like backboring.
I have an unmodified fixed MOD choke 18.5" barrel that I have patterned as a baseline. It performed worse than the 18.5" VCS IC barrel with everything but FliteControl. I am going to send it in to have just the forcing cone lengthened. If the groups improve on regular ammo and do not get worse with FliteControl I will have my answer.
If the FliteControl patterns do get worse then I will test the other, less prevlant theory that the ports screw up the patterns with FliteControl. I have a 20" IC barrel that I have also baselined. I will send that one in for VCS without the ports (current VCS barrel has ports).
The one exception is FliteControl ammo. It actually seems to pattern worse. I get about 5" groups with my non-VCS barrel. With the VCS barrel I get 7.5"
From what I hear this is common with VCS barrels. The common theory as to why this happens is that FliteControl does not like backboring.
I have an unmodified fixed MOD choke 18.5" barrel that I have patterned as a baseline. It performed worse than the 18.5" VCS IC barrel with everything but FliteControl. I am going to send it in to have just the forcing cone lengthened. If the groups improve on regular ammo and do not get worse with FliteControl I will have my answer.
If the FliteControl patterns do get worse then I will test the other, less prevlant theory that the ports screw up the patterns with FliteControl. I have a 20" IC barrel that I have also baselined. I will send that one in for VCS without the ports (current VCS barrel has ports).
oneounceload
Moderator
So, SMS - from what you are saying, it isn't VGS as much as it is back boring, extended forcing cones etc..... which can be had from a variety of folks all reputable.
Has any study been done between VGS and say, Magnaport, Rhino, Seminole, or other shotgun companies that do this work?
They will all CLAIM a bunch of stuff, but the proof is in the pudding
Has any study been done between VGS and say, Magnaport, Rhino, Seminole, or other shotgun companies that do this work?
They will all CLAIM a bunch of stuff, but the proof is in the pudding
StuntManMike
New member
So, SMS - from what you are saying, it isn't VGS as much as it is back boring, extended forcing cones etc..... which can be had from a variety of folks all reputable.
Has any study been done between VGS and say, Magnaport, Rhino, Seminole, or other shotgun companies that do this work?
They will all CLAIM a bunch of stuff, but the proof is in the pudding
I am sure other companies can backbore barrels and lengthen forcing cones but I have never used anybody other than Hans Vang so I cannot tell you how much of a difference another company's work will make.
All I know for sure is that the particular combination of lengthening the forcing cone and backboring used in the Vang Comp System works really well to shrink patterns with most loads.
back boring
lenghtning the forcing cone improves pattern. Any smith can do it.
Back-boring is cutting the barrel out from the chamber to the choke.
This takes a lot of work but many skilled smiths can do this.
It improves the pattern. "Over-bored" barrels do the same thing.
The mossberg 835 and 935 are examples.
The porting may or may not help the patterning but is said to reduce jump.
Some claim the porting helps stablilize the shot wad when exiting the muzzle by bleeding of excess gases at the muzzle.
lenghtning the forcing cone improves pattern. Any smith can do it.
Back-boring is cutting the barrel out from the chamber to the choke.
This takes a lot of work but many skilled smiths can do this.
It improves the pattern. "Over-bored" barrels do the same thing.
The mossberg 835 and 935 are examples.
The porting may or may not help the patterning but is said to reduce jump.
Some claim the porting helps stablilize the shot wad when exiting the muzzle by bleeding of excess gases at the muzzle.
Scattergun Bob
New member
I have owned two Vang-comp barrels. Both were for M-1 super 90's and from the period that Hans operated out of CA. The barrels were contracted from Robert Shaw and Hans added his little tricks. One did truly improve the pattern density of most any shot fired (it's a keeper). The other I returned to Hans because it produced a triangular pattern with OO and larger shot.
Overall, I liked my dealings with Mr. Vang. He is very personable and understands the "black magic" of scattergun barrels.
I have since found less expensive and equally effective ways to tighten 12gauge patterns.
Things are worth, what we are willing to pay. It is a buyers market for scattergun tricks, my thoughts are that you are paying for a very good gunsmith to perform his brand of magic on your barrel. Part of the price of Vang is your satisfaction at the patterning board.
Overall, I liked my dealings with Mr. Vang. He is very personable and understands the "black magic" of scattergun barrels.
I have since found less expensive and equally effective ways to tighten 12gauge patterns.
Things are worth, what we are willing to pay. It is a buyers market for scattergun tricks, my thoughts are that you are paying for a very good gunsmith to perform his brand of magic on your barrel. Part of the price of Vang is your satisfaction at the patterning board.
@StuntManMike: I'd be eager to know what you find out with the FliteControl loads. My shotgun is a Mossberg 590-A1 SPX, so it already had ports from the factory. (I honestly don't notice any difference between my Mossberg with ports and my step-dad's Mossberg without ports, be that noise, recoil, whatever. They both have 20" barrels.)
If you've ever opened up the flight control shells, they have little tabs on the sides of the shotcup. The way they keep a tighter pattern is that the shotcup stays with the load longer before the air resistance of the tabs slows it down enough to let pellets speed ahead of it. In essence, the shot stays in the shotcup longer, so it doesn't start to spread as soon.
My bet would be that the rough texture of the porting causes the shotcup to slow down a fraction of a second sooner than in a smoothbore so the shot begins to spread a bit sooner, making a more spread out pattern.
If you've ever opened up the flight control shells, they have little tabs on the sides of the shotcup. The way they keep a tighter pattern is that the shotcup stays with the load longer before the air resistance of the tabs slows it down enough to let pellets speed ahead of it. In essence, the shot stays in the shotcup longer, so it doesn't start to spread as soon.
My bet would be that the rough texture of the porting causes the shotcup to slow down a fraction of a second sooner than in a smoothbore so the shot begins to spread a bit sooner, making a more spread out pattern.
StuntManMike
New member
http://www.shootingtimes.com/gunsmoke/0712/index.html
Apparently there is at least one guy who gets good results with a ported VCS barrel AND Flite Control.
Apparently there is at least one guy who gets good results with a ported VCS barrel AND Flite Control.
StuntManMike
New member
I have an unmodified fixed MOD choke 18.5" barrel that I have patterned as a baseline. It performed worse than the 18.5" VCS IC barrel with everything but FliteControl. I am going to send it in to have just the forcing cone lengthened. If the groups improve on regular ammo and do not get worse with FliteControl I will have my answer.
If the FliteControl patterns do get worse then I will test the other, less prevlant theory that the ports screw up the patterns with FliteControl. I have a 20" IC barrel that I have also baselined. I will send that one in for VCS without the ports (current VCS barrel has ports).
Update- I just received the barrel back from Angle Port after they lengthened the forcing cone. I will be taking it to the range this weekend along with the VCS barrel for comparison.
StuntManMike
New member
Quote:
I have an unmodified fixed MOD choke 18.5" barrel that I have patterned as a baseline. It performed worse than the 18.5" VCS IC barrel with everything but FliteControl. I am going to send it in to have just the forcing cone lengthened. If the groups improve on regular ammo and do not get worse with FliteControl I will have my answer.
If the FliteControl patterns do get worse then I will test the other, less prevlant theory that the ports screw up the patterns with FliteControl. I have a 20" IC barrel that I have also baselined. I will send that one in for VCS without the ports (current VCS barrel has ports).
Update- I just received the barrel back from Angle Port after they lengthened the forcing cone. I will be taking it to the range this weekend along with the VCS barrel for comparison.
Overall the experiment was a failure. Some patterns got better but some got worse. The average pattern size of 12 different 00BK loads got worse. The good news is that most of the loads with Flite Control got better.
Just for comparison I brought along my 870P with the VCS barrel. It had an average for 12 different loads that was almost two inches smaller the other barrel before the mods and over two inches smaller after the mods.
The stange part is that the VCS barrel actually patterned significantly better with Flite Control loads than it did previously.
Also, with certain non premium loads such as the Winchester 16P 1BK and Remington Managed Recoil 8P 00BK, the VCS barrel produced patterns so well you would think they had Flite Control wads.
In the future I think I will just stick with VCS on an improved cylinder fix choke barrel for future shotguns.