Does 9mm + 16" bbl equal more speed?

C

Chad Young

New member
Well, finally got around to doing a little informal testing that I had wanted to do with 9mmP ammunition. My plan was to compare the muzzle velocities of 9mmP ammunition through a normal 4.5" barrel and a 16.5" carbine barrel.

The weapons used were a Ruger P89 pistol and a Marlin Camp Carbine 9mm. Chronograph was a Beta Master Chrony. Distance was about 10' from the muzzle.

Ammo was as follows:

Winchester “White Box” 115gr FMJ
Winchester “NATO” 124gr FMJ
Federal Hyrdashock “Personal Defense” 135gr HSHP
Winchester Supreme SXT 147gr JHP

Typically, five shots per gun, per bullet type. Due to small sample size, these data can only be viewed as anecdotal. When time and budget allows and if I can get the use of some different 9mm carbines, I will repeat these with more rounds and more guns.

Weight Velocity P89 Velocity Carbine % Increase
115 1150 1398 21.6
124 1134 1447 27.6
135 1019 1172 15
147 953.5 952.5 -0.1

So, what do you think? I am curious if the Marlin’s Micro Groove rifling either helps or hinders velocity in the carbine length barrel. I would also be curious to measure velocities from various pistols versus carbines. Any other ideas? Why do you think the 147gr round slows down?
 
One observation. The ammo you selected is specifically manufactured for pistols, so it's not the optimal ammo for a 16" carbine. The best way to get the best performance out of the carbine is to reload your own, that way you could use a slightly slower powder selection that would result in a better MV out of the longer barrel.

It's anybody's guess why the 147gr slowed down, but I'd guess that the generated pressure was lower, and it simply ran out of steam before it got out of the barrel.

You might try to round up some sub-gun ammo for a test, it may perform better in the carbine.
 
The 147gr bullet was never ment to be fired in a 9mm. Even the pistol velocity for that bullet is WAY too slow. In the carbine it simply ran out of poop and friction started to take over. Find some Israeli "black tip" 115gr. for the carbine.
 
Hmm, you guys have some good ideas. I wonder what kind of speeds I would get using WSF behind 115 to 124 grain bullets in the carbine. As for subgun or other ammo - I have to be a bit careful. The Camp Carbine is not rated for +P or other hot ammo and may suffer damage from operating that stuff too much. I have noticed that with +P, +P+, or NATO 9mm, you get a little flash from the breech when it cycles (the Camp Carbine are blowback, not locked breech).

I would love to do this same test in .44 Mag using a few revolver lengths and test versus some .44 Mag lever actions and the new Ruger Deerfield. I have to fix the chrony first, though. My partner shot my skyscreens off.
 
Regarding the 147 gr bullet, longer barrels such as that of the carbine allow for gas pressure to act upon the projectile longer, thereby increasing muzzle velocity. One drawback for the longer barrel is increased friction and there will be a point of diminishing returns. Such is probably the case for the 147 gr bullet. Gunmakers don't try to find the optimal length or twist for a particular bullet and powder combination. Rather, given the laws, they compromise, not in a dirty sense, to find what works best for most factory loaded ammunition available.
 
Re: Handgun cartridges from handguns and longguns

Chad,

This isn't 9mm or .44 mag, but it should give you an idea of what to expect from the .44 mag. I'm posting my chrony data from a previos post of mine in another thread.

Basically the more powder stuffed into a case, the better it's ability to take advantage of the longer barrel (ie. .357 mag loads gain more than .38 special loads do in the rifle barrel). Also, if you reload slower burning powder will make better use of the extra barrel length. I think the .44 mag will yield very good results for you, but the 9mm Marlin Camp shouldn't be hotrodded for the reasons you previously stated.

This is data from a Ruger SP101 3 1/16", a S&W 4" K frame, and a Marlin 1894CP 16.25". All loads were manufactured by Georgia Arms Inc. http://www.georgia-arms.com

Caliber .357 mag
Firearm 4" Smith & Wesson K Frame
Bullet brand and type Ga Arms GDHP
Bullet weight 158
Ambient temperature (Fahrenheit) 85
Cartridge OAL
Primer brand and type
Powder
Powder charge (grain)

Shot # Vel(fps)
1 1240 6 Use Top # of Shots
2 1270
3 1310 554.1577 Muzzle Energy (ft/lbs)
4 1233
5 1234 1256.833 Average Velocity (ft/sec)
6 1254 29.60 Standard Deviation
1233 Minimum Velocity (ft/sec)
1310 Maximum Velocity (ft/sec)
77 Extreme Spread (ft/sec)


Caliber .357 mag
Firearm 3 1/16" Ruger SP101
Bullet brand and type Ga Arms GDHP
Bullet weight 158
Ambient temperature (Fahrenheit) 85
Cartridge OAL
Primer brand and type
Powder
Powder charge (grain)

Shot # Vel(fps)
1 1262 5 Use Top # of Shots
2 1237
3 1232 544.9954 Muzzle Energy (ft/lbs)
4 1244
5 1257 1246.4 Average Velocity (ft/sec)
12.82 Standard Deviation
1232 Minimum Velocity (ft/sec)
1262 Maximum Velocity (ft/sec)
30 Extreme Spread (ft/sec)


Caliber .357 mag
Firearm 16 1/4" Marlin 1894CP
Bullet brand and type Ga Arms GDHP
Bullet weight 158
Ambient temperature (Fahrenheit) 85
Cartridge OAL
Primer brand and type
Powder
Powder charge (grain)

Shot # Vel(fps)
1 1786 6 Use Top # of Shots
2 1870
3 1871 1207.597 Muzzle Energy (ft/lbs)
4 1871
5 1871 1855.333 Average Velocity (ft/sec)
6 1863 34.11 Standard Deviation
1786 Minimum Velocity (ft/sec)
1871 Maximum Velocity (ft/sec)
85 Extreme Spread (ft/sec)


Caliber .357 mag
Firearm 4" Smith & Wesson K frame
Bullet brand and type Ga Arms HP
Bullet weight 125
Ambient temperature (Fahrenheit) 85
Cartridge OAL
Primer brand and type
Powder
Powder charge (grain)

Shot # Vel(fps)
1 1253 6 Use Top # of Shots
2 1312
3 1322 477.8691 Muzzle Energy (ft/lbs)
4 1327
5 1329 1312.167 Average Velocity (ft/sec)
6 1330 29.73 Standard Deviation
1253 Minimum Velocity (ft/sec)
1330 Maximum Velocity (ft/sec)
77 Extreme Spread (ft/sec)

Caliber .357 mag
Firearm 3 1/16" Ruger SP101
Bullet brand and type Ga Arms HP
Bullet weight 125
Ambient temperature (Fahrenheit) 85
Cartridge OAL
Primer brand and type
Powder
Powder charge (grain)

Shot # Vel(fps)
1 1259 5 Use Top # of Shots
2 1277
3 1328 449.4845 Muzzle Energy (ft/lbs)
4 1249
5 1250 1272.6 Average Velocity (ft/sec)
32.94 Standard Deviation
1249 Minimum Velocity (ft/sec)
1328 Maximum Velocity (ft/sec)
79 Extreme Spread (ft/sec)


Caliber .357 mag
Firearm 16 1/4" Marlin 1894CP
Bullet brand and type Ga Arms HP
Bullet weight 125
Ambient temperature (Fahrenheit) 85
Cartridge OAL
Primer brand and type
Powder
Powder charge (grain)

Shot # Vel(fps)
1 1951 3 Use Top # of Shots
2 2015
3 2001 1097.995 Muzzle Energy (ft/lbs)

1989 Average Velocity (ft/sec)
33.65 Standard Deviation
1951 Minimum Velocity (ft/sec)
2015 Maximum Velocity (ft/sec)
64 Extreme Spread (ft/sec)


Caliber .38 special
Firearm 3 1/16" Ruger SP101
Bullet brand and type Ga Arms PSWC
Bullet weight 158
Ambient temperature (Fahrenheit) 85
Cartridge OAL
Primer brand and type
Powder
Powder charge (grain)

Shot # Vel(fps)
1 786.2 5 Use Top # of Shots
2 794.9
3 709.9 205.5204 Muzzle Energy (ft/lbs)
4 722.5
5 813.5 765.4 Average Velocity (ft/sec)
46.20 Standard Deviation
709.9 Minimum Velocity (ft/sec)
813.5 Maximum Velocity (ft/sec)
103.6 Extreme Spread (ft/sec)


Caliber .38 special
Firearm 16 1/4" Marlin 1894CP
Bullet brand and type Ga Arms PSWC
Bullet weight 158
Ambient temperature (Fahrenheit) 85
Cartridge OAL
Primer brand and type
Powder
Powder charge (grain)

Shot # Vel(fps)
1 967.3 1 Use Top # of Shots

328.2467 Muzzle Energy (ft/lbs)

967.3 Average Velocity (ft/sec)
#DIV/0! Standard Deviation
967.3 Minimum Velocity (ft/sec)
967.3 Maximum Velocity (ft/sec)
0 Extreme Spread (ft/sec)


Kilgor
 
9mm Pistol/Carbine Velocity

This subject really interests me, I carry a Ruger P95 and Ruger PC9 as a LEO and have looking for a good ammo choice for both;(we're issued a Glock 22, so don't tell anyone), Any way I'm interested in one ammo that gives the best accuracy/velocity compromise for both Guns. It may be that both bullet weight and powder burn rate are important considerations. I would like to have 1150 in the handgun and around 1500 fps in the carbine. need further info.
 
Where are you located? I would love to do this test with different rifles, especially ones without Micro Groove rifling.
 
Indian Bob: I doubt you will get that much improvement in velocity of a 9mm out of the 16" carbine over the handgun from the same round. It is possible to achieve much higher velocities in the .357mag in a 16" carbine over a pistol because there is a lot of excess case capacity in the .357 which permits using a slower burning powder for the carbine round. The 9mm case is a limiting factor in that there isn't much excess case space. Therefore, there are fewer powder choices (on rate of burn). The Europeans load the 9mm hotter than Americans, and if you can find a 1500 fps load for the PC9, it will probably be higher than your ideal out of the P95. However, if you find the round you describe, please post information about it.
 
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