Super-Dave
New member
Do speer gold dots have sealed primers?
I know Winchester ranger and remington golden sabers do.
I know Winchester ranger and remington golden sabers do.
Do speer gold dots have sealed primers?
- Thread starter Super-Dave
- Start date
Super-Dave
New member
No we did not answer this.
I will only buy SD ammo that have sealed primers.
Sorry but I need that extra phycological security.
I will only buy SD ammo that have sealed primers.
Sorry but I need that extra phycological security.
Uncle Buck
New member
Couldn't you just seal them yourself with fingernail polish?
I am not being a smart-butt, but if I was concerned about the primers being sealed I would do it myself.
If you sealed them yourself, you would have a wider range of ammo to choose from.
I am not being a smart-butt, but if I was concerned about the primers being sealed I would do it myself.
If you sealed them yourself, you would have a wider range of ammo to choose from.
Dave,
No, they are not.
I have carried Gold Dots as issued ammunition by my old PD, I've shot a bundle of it over the years, I recommend it as one of the better carry rounds, I have zero concern over falling out of a boat with the stuff, and psychologically- I'm afraid you're so obsessing over irrelevancies in your search for the One True Ideal Handgun/Ammo combination that you'll be long dead of old age before ever deciding on anything.
Not to keep dumping on you, but you don't need sealed primers.
Did you do what the guy suggested in your other thread?
Put ten rounds of whatever in a glass of water for three days & then test fire them?
That SHOULD settle the question of your concern over falling into a creek & subsequent brief exposure to water in your gun.
This stuff just doesn't matter.
Denis
No, they are not.
I have carried Gold Dots as issued ammunition by my old PD, I've shot a bundle of it over the years, I recommend it as one of the better carry rounds, I have zero concern over falling out of a boat with the stuff, and psychologically- I'm afraid you're so obsessing over irrelevancies in your search for the One True Ideal Handgun/Ammo combination that you'll be long dead of old age before ever deciding on anything.
Not to keep dumping on you, but you don't need sealed primers.
Did you do what the guy suggested in your other thread?
Put ten rounds of whatever in a glass of water for three days & then test fire them?
That SHOULD settle the question of your concern over falling into a creek & subsequent brief exposure to water in your gun.
This stuff just doesn't matter.
Denis
Kreyzhorse
New member
I think that is a great suggestion and to your point Denis, you can really go overboard (no pun intended) with the hunt for the ammo gun combo that will be perfect for every situation.
The truth is that there isn't any one combo that is perfect for all situations but there are lots of combos that will be perfect for 99.9% of all situations.
Back to the point, if I were really worried about wet primers, I'd buy a box of Speer, soak them and see if they fire. If they do, that box should be your Holy Grail of Ammo. Of course even with sealed primer ammo, I'd likely perform the same test since it is possible that the ammo varies from batch to batch and perhaps the batch you just bought was made on a day that the primer sealer wasn't working quite right.
The real question is however, how well do Speer Gold Dots expand when they are fired wet?
Super-Dave
New member
I would call speer, but I just order a bunch of Ranger T's for my new .45
Ranger T's are indeed sealed.
Ranger T's are indeed sealed.
Some companies put a dab of glue/lacquer over the primer, to insure that no water manages to wick through the boundary between the compressed pieces of brass.
A tightly fitting primer, which is a brass cup squeezed into a brass pocket, is leak proof. Capillary action can allow water to follow tiny flaws in the brass if they are exposed to high pressure.
Sealed primers are a non issue in normal use, but some companies and the military do it as just another layer of protection against failure.
If it was a significant problem, there would not be a single piece of ammunition leaving a manufacturer without a sealed primer. In the current legal climate, the risk of being sued because a bullet failed would justify the cost of adding primer seals to EVERY round of ammunition. I suspect that a gallon or so of sealer would easily cover a million dollars worth of ammunition.
A tightly fitting primer, which is a brass cup squeezed into a brass pocket, is leak proof. Capillary action can allow water to follow tiny flaws in the brass if they are exposed to high pressure.
Sealed primers are a non issue in normal use, but some companies and the military do it as just another layer of protection against failure.
If it was a significant problem, there would not be a single piece of ammunition leaving a manufacturer without a sealed primer. In the current legal climate, the risk of being sued because a bullet failed would justify the cost of adding primer seals to EVERY round of ammunition. I suspect that a gallon or so of sealer would easily cover a million dollars worth of ammunition.
Sealed means they let a walrus pee on it.
Sorry. Seriously, it means some kind of thin glue has been smeared across the primer, water-sealing the edge of the primer. Traditionally it's red-tinted so you can see it, although clear fingernail polish will work just fine.
"Hardcast" means a plain lead bullet was made harder, either by alloying it with a harder metal in the lead such as tin or antimony or dropping it from the mold while still hot into a bucket of water to quench it. The goal is a harder bullet that won't deform and will avoid leading the barrel at higher speeds.
A softcast bullet is typically OK at 1,000fps or below, sometimes less (900fps fr'instance). Hardcasts can be pushed harder, 1,400fps or higher.
Another way to prevent leading is a "gas check" - a copper base-plate below the lead bullet. It only extends up the "sides" of the bullet a couple of millimeters at most, and doesn't add to the bullet's total width. It's kind of an "extreme mini-jacket" that prevents the burning powder from burning the tail end lead off the bullet (which is a major cause of plating the inside of the barrel with lead). This can allow you to push a softcast (defense oriented, usually) bullet faster than you otherwise could.
Hardcast bullets are generally either used in rifles (where they're going to go too fast no matter what you do so that softcast would smear their way down the barrel) or for hunting or critter-defense loads.
Hard or soft, plain lead bullets (or at most, gas checked) have an advantage over jacketed: lead is slicker than copper (or brass) and therefore you get more bullet speed for less pressure than jacketed. That's why a lot of top-end hunting loads for big-bore handguns and rifles (such as 45-70) are hardcast, to maximize both bullet energy and "deep punch" effects. Study Garrett's site for more details:
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp
Sorry. Seriously, it means some kind of thin glue has been smeared across the primer, water-sealing the edge of the primer. Traditionally it's red-tinted so you can see it, although clear fingernail polish will work just fine.
"Hardcast" means a plain lead bullet was made harder, either by alloying it with a harder metal in the lead such as tin or antimony or dropping it from the mold while still hot into a bucket of water to quench it. The goal is a harder bullet that won't deform and will avoid leading the barrel at higher speeds.
A softcast bullet is typically OK at 1,000fps or below, sometimes less (900fps fr'instance). Hardcasts can be pushed harder, 1,400fps or higher.
Another way to prevent leading is a "gas check" - a copper base-plate below the lead bullet. It only extends up the "sides" of the bullet a couple of millimeters at most, and doesn't add to the bullet's total width. It's kind of an "extreme mini-jacket" that prevents the burning powder from burning the tail end lead off the bullet (which is a major cause of plating the inside of the barrel with lead). This can allow you to push a softcast (defense oriented, usually) bullet faster than you otherwise could.
Hardcast bullets are generally either used in rifles (where they're going to go too fast no matter what you do so that softcast would smear their way down the barrel) or for hunting or critter-defense loads.
Hard or soft, plain lead bullets (or at most, gas checked) have an advantage over jacketed: lead is slicker than copper (or brass) and therefore you get more bullet speed for less pressure than jacketed. That's why a lot of top-end hunting loads for big-bore handguns and rifles (such as 45-70) are hardcast, to maximize both bullet energy and "deep punch" effects. Study Garrett's site for more details:
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp
oneounceload
Moderator
Primer sealer IS clear nail polish - it just costs more since it is designed for the shooting sports
orionengnr
New member
I have fallen overboard **twice** in one summer with my S&W M340 and Speer Gold Dot 135 gr ammo (along with another 5 rounds in a speed loader). Each time the gun and ammo stayed in my soaked shorts pocket for at least an hour.
Once I got home, I hosed the revolver down with WD40 to displace water, then blew it out with compressed air, then cleaned and lubed with Eezox.
The ammo was wiped down and tossed in the range bag, to be shot off in the next range trip a few weeks later. That would be a total of 20 well-soaked rounds, and all 20 went bang.
I no longer carry a j-frame, but I have no concerns whatsoever about modern factory ammo.
Once I got home, I hosed the revolver down with WD40 to displace water, then blew it out with compressed air, then cleaned and lubed with Eezox.
The ammo was wiped down and tossed in the range bag, to be shot off in the next range trip a few weeks later. That would be a total of 20 well-soaked rounds, and all 20 went bang.
I no longer carry a j-frame, but I have no concerns whatsoever about modern factory ammo.
Thanks, guys. I think I have the picture. (And am *not* going to worry about sealed primers unless I'm going to be swimming with the gun.) 
Jim, that was helpful. I now feel like less of an idiot looking at all of those high-grain-count, heavy .357 loads that have been recommended to to turn my S&W Model 60-10 into something remotely resembling an adequate emergency bear defense gun. I'm going to order a few types, gas-checked by preference, and shoot them in practice to see if I can stand it. If I can, great. If not, I'll start looking for a larger trail gun at some point.
I think I have the picture. (And am *not* going to worry about sealed primers unless I'm going to be swimming with the gun.) Jim, that was helpful. I now feel like less of an idiot looking at all of those high-grain-count, heavy .357 loads that have been recommended to to turn my S&W Model 60-10 into something remotely resembling an adequate emergency bear defense gun. I'm going to order a few types, gas-checked by preference, and shoot them in practice to see if I can stand it. If I can, great. If not, I'll start looking for a larger trail gun at some point.
After many years of handloading (~32?), I feel safe in saying that primers fit in the primer pocket of a case just as tightly, and usually more so, as the bullet on the other end.
So if you're going to seal the primer, you better seal the bullet, too.
Which raises questions about a fingernail-polish coated bullet going down a barrel, but I digress...
I've never fallen into a creek with a gun, but I did have a horse lay down on me once while standing in a pond. I got him up, went on into camp, and cleaned my gun good and re-loaded it with fresh ammo for the next day's hunt.
A week or so later, I tried the ammo at a range. They fired fine, and hit where I aimed them.
The primers were not sealed, and the bullets were not sealed. I know because I handloaded them myself.
So if you forget your handgun in your pocket, and it gets ran through the washing machine or some such, I'd suggest replacing your ammo (in the above case, I did it myself). Other than that, I don't worry about it.
Daryl
So if you're going to seal the primer, you better seal the bullet, too.
Which raises questions about a fingernail-polish coated bullet going down a barrel, but I digress...
I've never fallen into a creek with a gun, but I did have a horse lay down on me once while standing in a pond. I got him up, went on into camp, and cleaned my gun good and re-loaded it with fresh ammo for the next day's hunt.
A week or so later, I tried the ammo at a range. They fired fine, and hit where I aimed them.
The primers were not sealed, and the bullets were not sealed. I know because I handloaded them myself.
So if you forget your handgun in your pocket, and it gets ran through the washing machine or some such, I'd suggest replacing your ammo (in the above case, I did it myself). Other than that, I don't worry about it.
Daryl
Gold dot primers ARE sealed
I wanted to clarify some misinformation which I remembered reading here a while back. I contacted Speer directly regarding this question and will post my emails and their responses below:
DTOX "I recently purchased a box of your 158 gr. .357 magnum ammo (23960). I inspected the primers, and there is a small teal-colored mark on them. Is this a primer seal, or a quality control marking? "
SPEER "The teal is the colorant of the primer sealant."
DTOX "That's great news! When did Speer start sealing their primers?"
SPEER "For as long as I can recall. The 357 Magnum that you have probably came to us primed from Federal (our sister company). They use a colorant in the primer sealant. The ammo that is primed here at Speer has no color in the primer sealant, so you do not notice it."
DTOX "If mine are from Federal, does that mean the primers could be Federal instead of CCI?
SPEER "Yes."
I hope everyone finds this helpful.
-Dtox
I wanted to clarify some misinformation which I remembered reading here a while back. I contacted Speer directly regarding this question and will post my emails and their responses below:
DTOX "I recently purchased a box of your 158 gr. .357 magnum ammo (23960). I inspected the primers, and there is a small teal-colored mark on them. Is this a primer seal, or a quality control marking? "
SPEER "The teal is the colorant of the primer sealant."
DTOX "That's great news! When did Speer start sealing their primers?"
SPEER "For as long as I can recall. The 357 Magnum that you have probably came to us primed from Federal (our sister company). They use a colorant in the primer sealant. The ammo that is primed here at Speer has no color in the primer sealant, so you do not notice it."
DTOX "If mine are from Federal, does that mean the primers could be Federal instead of CCI?
SPEER "Yes."
I hope everyone finds this helpful.
-Dtox
Thanks DaleA
Yeah, I saw that. But the reason I wanted to go ahead and put this information out there was for other people who find this thread while researching the issue using search engines like google and yahoo. That's how I found it. This thread is one of the top results on Google when you query: Gold Dot sealed primers
-dtox
Yeah, I saw that. But the reason I wanted to go ahead and put this information out there was for other people who find this thread while researching the issue using search engines like google and yahoo. That's how I found it. This thread is one of the top results on Google when you query: Gold Dot sealed primers
-dtox
Kreyzhorse
New member
This thread scared me. 
I thought Super Dave was back!
I thought Super Dave was back!