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Do SpecOps People Use Premium Ammo?
- Thread starter doctorj
- Start date
The Hague Convention prohibits the use of expanding ammunition against uniformed personnel, and the Hague Convention is international law. In addition, the common prohibition against such ammunition has, through common usage, acceptance, and tradition, become customary international law.
However, that only applies to members of an organized military force. Terrorists are considered criminals so hollowpoints may be used against them, as well as civilians (of course, you're not supposed to shoot civilians in the first place). Funny how these things work, no?
However, that only applies to members of an organized military force. Terrorists are considered criminals so hollowpoints may be used against them, as well as civilians (of course, you're not supposed to shoot civilians in the first place). Funny how these things work, no?
valkyrie.rider
New member
My son is an active Seal. He assures me that they have access to and regularly use the best premium ammo around.
SEAL teams do use premium ammo, including hollow point ammo. They also reload their own ammo to some extent. This is not saying that is all they use, just that if the mission requires a certain type of ammunition, you can bet thats what they'll be using. SEAL 6 on a counter terror op isnt going to be using ball ammunition for example.
BrokenArrow
New member
From the GunZone/Dean Spier:
"Dum-dum bullets," named for their arsenal of origin in a town
near Calcutta, India, are soft-nosed projectiles, not hollow points. And
their deployment is proscribed by a "Declaration Concerning Expanding
Bullets" adopted at the First Hague Peace Conference of 1899 which states:
"The contracting parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which
expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard
envelope which does not entirely cover the core or is pierced with
incisions."
Although not a party to this accord, as a matter of policy the United States
has acknowledged and respected its applicability in conventional combat
operations since its adoption almost one century ago.
Where the U.S. did sign on, however, was with the Hague Convention IV of
1907, Article 23(e) of which Annex prohibits the employment of:
"...arms, projectiles, or materiel calculated to cause unnecessary
suffering."
In observance of this, for many years U.S. Military snipers went afield with
M-118 ammo, a 7.62 X 51mm 173-grain solid-tipped boat tail round
manufactured to much closer tolerances than M-80 "ball."
This practice began to change subsequent to a 23 September 1985 opinion
issued by the Judge Advocate General, authored by W. Hays Parks, Chief of
the JAG's International Law Branch, for the signature of Major Hugh R.
Overholt, which stated:
"...expanding point ammunition is legally permissible in counterterrorist
operations not involving the engagement of the armed forces of another
State."
On 12 October 1990, another Memorandum of Law from Parks at the request of
the Commander of the United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) and
coordinated with the Department of State, Army General Counsel, as well as
the Offices of the Judge Advocates General of the Navy and Air Force,
concluded that:
"The purpose of the 7.62mm "open-tip" MatchKing bullet is to provide maximum
accuracy at very long range. ... Bullet fragmentation is not a design
characteristic, however, nor a purpose for use of the MatchKing by United
States Army snipers. Wounds caused by MatchKing ammunition are similar to
those caused by a fully jacketed military ball bullet, which is legal under
the law of war, when compared at the same ranges and under the same
conditions. (The Sierra #2200 BTHP) not only meets, but exceeds, the law of
war obligations of the United States for use in combat."
Whether it is the overall excellence of the Sierra MatchKing, or its virtual
endorsement within the upper echelons of the military, the #2200 boat tail
hollow point was the round of preference for snipers and .30 caliber High
Power competitors alike. Aside from Federal, Remington and Samson (IMI) both
load it in their commercially available "match" rounds, while Winchester
uses it in their Ranger line of law enforcement ammunition.
More recently (1993), another Parks-authored opinion cleared the way for the
U.S. Special Operations Command to purchase a Winchester 230-grain JHP for
use in its H&K-manufactured Mk 23 Mod 0 pistol.
"Dum-dum bullets," named for their arsenal of origin in a town
near Calcutta, India, are soft-nosed projectiles, not hollow points. And
their deployment is proscribed by a "Declaration Concerning Expanding
Bullets" adopted at the First Hague Peace Conference of 1899 which states:
"The contracting parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which
expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard
envelope which does not entirely cover the core or is pierced with
incisions."
Although not a party to this accord, as a matter of policy the United States
has acknowledged and respected its applicability in conventional combat
operations since its adoption almost one century ago.
Where the U.S. did sign on, however, was with the Hague Convention IV of
1907, Article 23(e) of which Annex prohibits the employment of:
"...arms, projectiles, or materiel calculated to cause unnecessary
suffering."
In observance of this, for many years U.S. Military snipers went afield with
M-118 ammo, a 7.62 X 51mm 173-grain solid-tipped boat tail round
manufactured to much closer tolerances than M-80 "ball."
This practice began to change subsequent to a 23 September 1985 opinion
issued by the Judge Advocate General, authored by W. Hays Parks, Chief of
the JAG's International Law Branch, for the signature of Major Hugh R.
Overholt, which stated:
"...expanding point ammunition is legally permissible in counterterrorist
operations not involving the engagement of the armed forces of another
State."
On 12 October 1990, another Memorandum of Law from Parks at the request of
the Commander of the United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) and
coordinated with the Department of State, Army General Counsel, as well as
the Offices of the Judge Advocates General of the Navy and Air Force,
concluded that:
"The purpose of the 7.62mm "open-tip" MatchKing bullet is to provide maximum
accuracy at very long range. ... Bullet fragmentation is not a design
characteristic, however, nor a purpose for use of the MatchKing by United
States Army snipers. Wounds caused by MatchKing ammunition are similar to
those caused by a fully jacketed military ball bullet, which is legal under
the law of war, when compared at the same ranges and under the same
conditions. (The Sierra #2200 BTHP) not only meets, but exceeds, the law of
war obligations of the United States for use in combat."
Whether it is the overall excellence of the Sierra MatchKing, or its virtual
endorsement within the upper echelons of the military, the #2200 boat tail
hollow point was the round of preference for snipers and .30 caliber High
Power competitors alike. Aside from Federal, Remington and Samson (IMI) both
load it in their commercially available "match" rounds, while Winchester
uses it in their Ranger line of law enforcement ammunition.
More recently (1993), another Parks-authored opinion cleared the way for the
U.S. Special Operations Command to purchase a Winchester 230-grain JHP for
use in its H&K-manufactured Mk 23 Mod 0 pistol.