Do Smart People Buy Used Guns Sight Unseen?

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MLT

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Apparently, a lot of used guns are sold over the internet (GunsAmerica, etc.). They typically have condition descriptors such as "Excellent Condition" or "Very Good Condition" (rarely is something described as only "Good" or "Fair" condition) or "98%". I can't believe how many "98%" condition guns there are available!

I have no problems with used guns that I can see (and, better yet, test fire), but buying a used gun over the net doesn't strike me as a very good idea. Also (except as noted below), buying new over the net doesn't bother me, especially if you are buying from a reputable dealer. Maybe buying a used pistol from Bachman's or KYImports, etc. would be ok, but a private party?

One other matter I have heard is that a gun can be described as "NIB" even if it has been fired. In other words, what does the "N" mean? In my uninitiated parlance, it means "N"ever been fired.

Just curious,
Matt
 
If you get a 3 day inspection period it shouldn't be a problem. I agree with you on the NIB you always see. Upon asking further questions you find it has been fired. ANIB is what it is if it has been fired but at/close to 100%.
 
Hi, Matt,

New should mean unfired (except for factory proofing and test firing). NIB should mean new, in the original box, with the warranty card, manual, cleaning kit, etc. I have known dealers who take new gun types out and fire them just to see what they feel like so they can be expert with the customers. Then they clean the gun, put it back in the box and sell it as new. Like a "demo" car, it is not new, to my mind, and a discount is expected.

As to buying sight unseen, I think it is a matter of what the gun is. Military surplus guns are usually pretty predictable as to condition, and key words (arsenal rebuilt, bluing like new) can tip you off. I would tend to distrust the kind of gun that gets heavy use since you may be buying somebody else's worn out junk. If you read this forum, you know which ones those are.

A good bet is the police trade-in, carried much and shot little.

Outward appearance actually means little on some guns. Guys who put 500 rounds through a gun every weekend usually take good care of the gun; it may look almost new, yet be completely worn out.

I prefer to buy from ads in SGN or other magazines, since they carry an address and a phone number. Still, considering the amount of sight unseen sales made, there seem to be relatively few problems.

And all this left you no better off, did it?

Jim
 
In general the answer is NO..

Unless there is an agreed upoon "inspection" period where you can see for yourself the condition of a firearm. Many people who shop at on-line auctions are dissapointed by the condition of the materials they recive when expectly "excellent": or better condition items.

Bottom line if you have the agreed inspection terms you won't get stuck with junk.


Dr.Rob
 
Matt, I agree with the others about a three-day inspection period. Some outfits won't allow this, and then you politely tell them that their risk is not worth your money.

NIB should be New, In Box.
ANIB=As New, In Box.
"Unturned" is something specific to revolvers. Usually special editions, commemoratives, presentation pieces, and the like. It means what it sounds like. The gun was assembled very carefully, as to not ding anything, and the hammer has never been cocked, which would turn the cylinder, very likely scribing a light line around the cylinder from the cylinder stop.
A gun marked NIB, may actually have been legitimately fired. S&W used to fire every other chamber on a revolver, so you'd have a triangular arrangement of burn rings on the cylinder face. If you are looking at an older S&W that has six burn rings, or none at all I would be suspicious of its past.

I really don't think it is worth buying a second-hand gun NIB unless you plan on keeping it that way. Only deal with those that allow an inspection period. If you are unsure of how to evaluate the gun in those three days, take the gun to a competent smith and pay him the $10-$20 to look the gun over, inside and out. That twenty buck inspection may reveal a several hundred dollar flaw. In which case you would have the gunsmith write that up on letterhead, you make a copy of it, and send a copy back to the dealer with the gun when you return it.
-Kframe
 
Dr. Rob is correct. When buying from indivs., caveat emptor is the rule, and NIB may mean "Not INCREDIBLY Bad". Don't fall for an inspection period, either - what's your recourse if the check has already cleared and the seller refuses to honor the inspection/return agreement? Sure an inspection period's OK if you don't send the check until the inspection is completed.
 
Futo, I think that if the gun came with a statement allowing inspection or the company advertisement stated this and the company tried to back out of it you would have grounds for legal action. Would you have to actually file suit? I doubt it. Go to a lawyer and he can type something up on letterhead that basically says "hey, give him the money back unless you would rather talk to a judge" and in most cases that will get the desired response.

It's better if you paid by credit card. I'm not exactly sure why, but I heard somewhere that the gov't takes greater interest in credit-card fraud. Oh yeah, if you sent a US Postal Money order as payment any goofy antics by the seller would be both mail fraud and wire fraud, if I'm not mistaken.

-Kframe
 
Going by the number of posts I've seen since I have been reading TFL that talk about dumping or unloading guns that jam, misfire, are inaccurate, etc. on unsuspecting buyers, I am very skeptical when it comes to buying a used gun. I think it's almost criminal to sell a gun to someone without disclosing a known defect, which, from the sound of many of the posts, is what plenty of people are doing; it's no better than stealing (fraud is a passive form of stealing). If someone gets a lemon of a gun, they should either fix it or disclose the problem before selling it, not just pass on the headache.
DAL

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Reading "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal," by Ayn Rand, should be required of every politician and in every high school.
 
DAL,

A good point. I've had some very good used cars, but I'm never comfortable with one until it's proven itself.
 
I've bought several guns off the net without problems. If you use Auction Arms there is a feedback forum. If you get the shaft you can "blackball" the guy.

I do agree that you should never knowling sell a gun that has something wrong with it. Can you imagine the legal trouble you could get it? Do the right thing. If the gun is broken, fix, than sell it. Or sell it as a gun that need fixing.
 
Perhaps you need a standard US grading system for used firearms as we do in SSAA ie.."as new..excellent..very good..good ..fair ?"(ssaa.org.au) but then we are all association members and a blackball card can be played if one is agreeved over misrepresentation of a firearm for sale.
In my experience dealers are more to blame in Mail Order sales. "Very Good" describing an exMil rifle is rarely accurate !

Most private sales are dogged by the results of poor maintenance, mainly barrel corrosion due to rust under metal fouling I have found, but I too have heard stories about members selling burnt out throats in hot calibres to unsuspecting people. The question is, with use of factory ammo does this really matter with ordinary shooters who are not concerned with 1" MOA accuracy?

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***Big Bunny***
 
I gotta tell teh truth, I felt a bit hosed after buying a used Astra A-70 online, getting it out to the range and finding it was essentially a single-shot .40! It just would not extract, even though it cycled unfired rounds just fine.

But one post, some quick advice, a call to EAA and one UPS guy later, and I had a pretty good shooter (all it needed was an extractor spring) for about 140 bucks after all shipping costs and a couple springs.

I know this didn't help much, but I think the end result is I'm satisfied now...I got a decent shooter, learned a few tips and tricks about tuning an extractor and didn't get screwed in the process...

I bought mine at gunbroker.com, btw. no special reason, just hapened to be there scrolling through the listings and the Astra grabbed my eye...


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-stark-
ShootersNetwork
http://www.shootersnetwork.com
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I have purchased several handguns via AuctionArms,GunBroker and GunsAmerica. I've had great luck in getting what I consider great deals. You have to be careful though. I will not even consider buying if the item being sold doesn't have a picture posted. It's no guarantee that you'll not get taken, but it makes me feel better! :)
 
I've bought several guns on the net, private, guns were as described, sent the money first, honesty triumphed.

If I need another gun I'll do it the same way.

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
I've bought two guns that were advertised online by private sellers. Both turned out to be fine shooters; one (a revolver) was actually cleaner than most of the new guns I've seen.

It is risky. I try to avoid dealing with the following types of posters:

THE ALL CAPS GUYS WHO DONT USE PUNCTUATION

the all lower-case guys.whatz up with that?

Peeple who cant spel verry will.

Guys offering incredible deals!!!!!

They might be perfectly trustworthy but their writing style makes a bad first impression.
 
If for any reason you are compelled to buy a gun "sight unseen," here are several things you can do to help protect yourself.

1) Number one, first and formost...make sure that YOU understand what you are asking/looking for, since that's where most misunderstandings begin.

2)Ask a lot of questions via email and save the replies. Make the seller address specific concerns about the item in question, including why they are selling. Be diplomatic.

3)Talk to the seller on the phone and try to get a "feel" for him--see if you trust him.

4)Insist on an inspection period of 3 days, and if the gun is not NIB, try to shoot some factory ammo through it (if your FFL has a range available, and don't forget to clean it afterwards if you're going to send it back)

5)Set up an escrow account which will not release your payment to the seller until you indicate satisfaction with the transaction.

6)If the seller has an FFL, ask for a copy of it. An FFL has a lot to loose should he be guilty of fraud.

All that said, you should remember that most people are honest and aren't trying to screw anyone. Never be rude cuz no one likes to feel like a suspect--I actually turned down a potential sale for one of my guns because the guy's first message to me was more like a courtroom interrogation than a friendly inquiry...

So far I've had nothing but very good dealings over the net. Hope you find what you're looking for!
 
I bought a kit of parts over the net, partially assembled, and while I don't think the guy was trying to screw me, actually, exactly as advertized, but the gun was pretty worked over :) I'll get it working, but it'll take a couple of monthes of gunsmithing by yours truly :) and alot of time...
Not screwed, but unpleasantly surprised
 
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