Disturbing e-mail from (I assume) the USA

B

Bruce in West Oz

New member
I received this e-mail last night, out of the blue.

I don't know the sender; he obviously got my home e-mail address from my gun club website.

He's written twice now, and I've included my replies.

Your advice, please: Have I handled this correctly? I don't want to upset him because he's obviously hurting enough already. Do you think I stepped over the line in my replies??

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What cowards you all are to give up your guns to your government. It is too
bad you did not have the courage to fight for freedom. Our government is also composed of power hungry fools but I hope someday we americans can have a second revolution. You might consider it as well. Remember God gave you rights not the king or the cops. fight back for your children. JE****[/quote]


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Thank you for your e-mail.

It's probably easy to criticise from where you stand, but the situation here was different in ways I'm sure you don't begin to understand.

Let me set you right on a couple of things:

Firstly, in my State (for example), we had no choice. We have had gun registration since the 1930s -- the police _knew_ what firearms we had. There was no chance of just ignoring the law. Then, of course, the threat of 10 years' jail and $10 000 fines helped. In my case, my wife asked me for the sake of the kids to comply -- she wanted her husband and father at home, not locked away.

Secondly, these laws came into effect in 12 DAYS!! You try and organise a nationwide civil disobedience program in 12 DAYS!!

Thirdly, the "buyback" only netted some 600 000 guns, at a cost of $500 _million_ dollars. This is estimated to be as few as 20% of the total. You see, in some States of Australia, guns weren't registered, so the police don't know who has what -- and a gun can be hidden anywhere.

Fourthly, and very importantly, we have no constitutional right to bear arms. In Australia, firearms ownership has _always_ been a privilege, not a right.

No, my friend, I understand your anger, your feelings of powerlessness -- but direct them to where they belong -- the people who want your guns -- not against fellow gun-owners. Because that's playing into the hands of the anti-gun brigade.

We lost because we simply didn't believe it would or could happen here. Let our disaster prove to be a lesson you can learn from. Prepare yourself -- because they're coming for your guns, too.

Bruce[/quote]

Second e-mail arrived tonight:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The answer here is to shoot the man who comes to your door ,then find another of the kings men and shoot him, and so on and so on. It is clear that citizens outnumber the gestapo. They only win because we are too afraid to take a moral stand. Look at germany , how many people prayed for a gun but had none since they had already turned it in because they were afraid. I blame no one for being afraid as anyman in war who is not afraid is a liar. But you could start to prepare for a revolution. Stockpile gas, guns food etc and prepare. It is better to die a free man at the end of the king's rope than to live as slave. Joe[/quote]


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Hi Joe

Thanks for the response. It's good to hear from you and know that you feel as strongly as I do (believe it or not).

But the situation you are describing doesn't apply here any more. It's over here; we've lost and won't get back what we once had. It's sad but it's a fact -- no-one is going to repeal the law of the land. The laws were passed three years ago. And if anyone comes knocking on my door, they won't be "king's men", they'll be people like my brother (a police officer) or two of my co-workers' husbands (also police officers). And exactly what could I achieve with a bolt action .22 rimfire and a bolt action .22 Hornet against a SWAT team with .308s, night scopes, body armour and all the other paraphernalia they have? I'll tell you -- nothing, zilch, zero. I would be shot dead and reported as a "gun nut" that Australia is better off not having. And they would tighten the screws on all other gun-owners just a little more.

The situation you describe applies to the USA. Hopefully, you can _learn_ and _prepare_ from our own unpreparedness.

I sincerely hope you are never put in the position of having to shoot a fellow American -- and I hope to God you'll never "swing from a rope".

Keep fighting, mate -- just remember there is no disgrace in strategic withdrawal when the odds are overwhelming, because you'll survive to fight again -- perhaps in a different way other than direct confrontation.

I can't really enter into a debate on this, because I don't know your situation -- all I can do is try to show others what can happen -- and _has_ happened, in our case.

Best wishes
Bruce[/quote]

I'll wait to see what my fellow TFLers think.

B
 
Bruce, I believe you answered very well - calmly and intelligently. I wish this situation didn't have to come about, but obviously, 'JOE', was a bit over zealous in his admonishment. I think that you guys down under would have fought tooth and nail if given any kind of time or opportunity to do so.
I know you are with us in spirit in our fight against the tide of idiocy here in the States. Thank you for your support and perhaps, in the coming days of globalization(ptui!), we'll be able to bring you a brand new shiny slingshot,(single-shot, of course) because that is the only thing we'll be allowed until Goliath is slain.
My very best to you.
 
Good Job, Bruce.

Here, this'll lighten up your day!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>As ham sandwiches go, it was perfection. A thick slab of ham, a fresh bun, crisp lettuce and plenty of expensive, light brown, gourmet mustard. The corners of my jaw aching in anticipation.

I carried it to the picnic tablein our backyard, picked it up with both hands but was stopped by my wife suddenly at my side. "Hold Johnny (our six-week-old son) while I get my sandwich," she said.

I had him balanced between my left elbow and shoulder and was reaching again for the ham sandwich when I noticed a streak of mustard on my fingers.

I love mustard.

I had no napkin.

I licked it off.

It was not mustard.

I sprinted with my tongue protruding. With a washcloth in my hand I did the sort of routine shoeshine boys do, only I did it on my tongue.

Later my wife said, "Now you know why they call that mustard 'Poupon.'"[/quote]

[This message has been edited by sensop (edited March 28, 2000).]
 
Bruce: I understand where both you AND "Joe" are coming from. Some thoughts occured to me, as I read your post:

1. They've banned guns, not machine tools. Nor have they changed the laws of economics, so as to prevent a black market from forming. So you CAN own whatever gun you want, if you want it enough. If you don't want it enough to violate a law, then their victory wasn't in the legislature, it was in your head.

2. You might not have a constitutional right to own guns, (Or any other rights; Did the people who wrote your constitution think Australia was still a penal colony?) but you've got a human right to own them.

3. The German stormtroopers who came in the night in Nazi Germany were somebody's brother. Pol Pot was somebody's brother. The worst rat-b*****d imaginable is somebody's brother. Can't let THAT stop you, if what they're doing is evil. You have to judge people by their actions, not their genes.

4. OF COURSE you don't fight them when they show up in force at your front door. Always attack their weakness with your strength, not the other way about; They don't wear swat gear 24-7, do they? They don't live in fortified compounds, do they? SWAT members are as easy to kill as anyone else, if you approach it right. So it's not a question of, "Can I kill them?", it's a question of, "Will I kill them?". Circumstances haven't made that choice for you, YOU have made that choice.

5. In the ultimate analysis, the only rights a people will retain are the ones they're willing to fight for. Why do WE have the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms? Because when the Redcoats came for our arms, over 200 years ago, we KILLED them! Why do we have it today? Not because of the NRA's "clout", that's just a side effect of our resolve. It's because our "representatives" justly fear that if they tried to pull what yours did to you, we'd kill THEM. Better believe that enters into their calculations. If something is a "right", that means that you have the right to defend it, with lethal force if necessary. A man who won't kill to defend his freedom is just a slave waiting for a master to come around and fasten on the shackles.

6. Finally, I understand where you're coming from, about having a family. I got married last year, and it dramatically changed my thinking about these things, because it wasn't just my life on the line anymore. But it didn't change the fact that there's a point at which I'd resort to violence, it just moved the point a bit.

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Sic semper tyrannis!
 
I'd like to see say, 5000+ gun owners camped somewhere all together with banned "items" & signs saying something to the effect of "Here's our guns, TAKE THEM!"

What would the authorities do?

Call in the Army, an air strike maybe?

Terminate with extreme predjudice???
That'd look good on World News wouldn't it. ;)

Until some group, somewhere takes a stand for what is RIGHT & not what "they" say is right, they'll win by nibbling away bit by bit (no matter what country you're in) , until one day they'll have eaten the whole cake & there won't even be any crumbs left! :(

Of course this would take the type of planning that would/could be construed as treason & all (leading) parties concerned would then be on a most wanted list.

Say, isn't this how your Revolution came about? ;)

It's 12:34AM my way & I'm starting to ramble...

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"The Gun from Down Under !"
http://www.para1911fanclub.w3.to/
E-mail hotshot_2000@hotmail.com
Alternate E-mail
HS2000@ausi.com
 
Bruce,
Great replies - logical, lucid, illuminating.
(Quite your usual syle! ;) )
-----

Brett,

At what point do you plan to start murdering LEOs?
- Remember, *some* of them are on "our" side!
- Some of them might come over to our side.

But if we start to kill them in their homes and/or when they are with their families, there will be what so quaintly is called "collateral damage". That would galvanize MANY people (LEOs and non-Leos) against gun owners.

How do you propose convincing the federal government NOT to become involved? Or neutralizing them when they DO become involved?

Start your murders early - you create resistance against you.
Start your murders late - you lose.

While your plan may have emotional, dream-like appeal to many people, they would not stand by you. You would be alone and soon killed. You would be a criminal - not a hero - and forgotten in two days.

Our best bet is at the voting booth - but we remain afraid to even *vote* for what we want. Instead, we wring our hands and vote for the "lesser evil" while we grow steadly weaker and the government steadily stronger.

Unless and until we have nerve enough to *vote* for what is right, I can not believe we have what it takes to *fight* for what is right.

A Nation of Cowards.

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Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 
I suspect that most of these people who talk about "revolution" would do exactly what you did Bruce, give up their guns peacefully. Most gunowners have families, jobs, homes etc that would be taken from them if they resisted. Most would listen to their wife and children and go along with the government.

Then of course there are some who either have nothing to loose or would risk everything for their belief in the US constitutuon. The left in this country is afraid of the latter group, in the back of their minds lies the nagging thought that they may push too far too fast and trigger something. That is why it will take years to accomplish confiscation, and also why the next election in this country is crucial to the future of the Second Amendment.

If I find out that any TFL member is not registered to vote, I will personally pull out your CPU through your disc drive ;)


Geoff Ross

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One reason to vote in the next Presidential election.

It's the Supreme Court, Stupid!
 
Dennis: See this? (Picture me holding a card up to the monitor.) It's my membership card in the Libertarian party. I've had one in my wallet since the late 70's. I've voted in every election since I turned 18, except for one local election which happened immediately after I broke a leg; I was too drugged out to request an absentee ballot. So direct your lecture about voting for the lesser of two evils somewhere else...

When do I start killing LEOs? That's for me to know, and them to find out the hard way. Things would have to be substantially worse than they are now. But I WOULD start doing it before they got as bad as, say, Hitler's "final solution".

In between? I refuse to say, beyond suggesting that I'm not at all likely to resort to violence so long as the government hasn't closed off all avenues for peaceful change. Don't get too fond of rigging the ballot, boys, if you want that, "If you don't like government policy then vote!" line to work on me. And all bets are off if the BATF hurts anyone in my family.

Are there LEOs on our side? Sure. There were probably good guys in the SS, too. Hang out with thugs, and you take your chances...

Finally, Dennis, unless you're a pacifist, there's not as much difference between my position and yours as you think. Doubtless there's a point at which YOU would resort to lethal force, too. Have you decided what it is? Best to make such decisions in a cool frame of mind, rather than the heat of the moment.

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Sic semper tyrannis!
 
K80Geoff
Quote
If I find out that any TFL member is not registered to vote, I will personally pull out your CPU through your disc drive

Geoff.........now that was funny. :D

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"Lead, follow or get the HELL out of the way."
 
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