Discharge on dropping

S

SwampYankee

New member
I'm not sure where this fits, probably in the "Media Lies to the Public" section of TFL:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/04/19/texas.school.gun.accident/index.html?hpt=T1

So a 6 year old brings a gun to school, it falls out of his bag and discharges. I just find it VERY hard to believe that the gun discharged when it fell out of the kids bag. I can guarantee that none of my dozen handguns will fire when dropped. Of course, I don't own any classic SA revolvers without a transfer bar. And I don't own any junk guns. Would a cheap-o Jennings or the like be prone to discharge when dropped?
 
I didn't see what kind of gun it was, but I do know that there are plenty of 1911's in this country that are prone to inertia discharge.
 
So is this kid going to be a felon now? he is only 6 years old.

If kid's can't follow the law do you think criminals will?

"In 2006-2007, the latest year in which statistics are available, nearly 2,700 students nationwide were expelled or disciplined for bringing a gun to school, said William Modzeleski, associate assistant deputy secretary for the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Safe and Drug-Free Schools."
 
If the pistol(1911 style) lands on its muzzle, inertia can force the firing pin forward, possibly with enough force to ignite the primer.

So there!

Many newer 1911s have a trigger safety built in to prevent this: the trigger must be pulled to release the firing pin. Otherwise it's locked and cannot travel forward, preventing firing pin strike of the primer.

So there again!

Also prevents firing if the hammer is resting on the firing pin and is struck with a hard blow.

One more time, LOL!
 
Last edited:
Most modern handguns won't discharge when dropped on the hammer. However, "modern" is the key word. There are plenty of older handgun designs that lack a positive hammer block, such as basically everything S&W built prior to 1917.

Lots of older top-break revolvers have a rebounding hammer, but it often doesn't take a very hard hit to overcome the rebound mechanism.
 
Gents, you are all starting from the assumption that the press report is accurate.

I challenge that assumption, based on personal experience, when 10 became 100, 5 became 2, and the press "reported" that an officers' actions were based on "Walker, Texas Ranger", not a clear set of articulated facts - which they were given.

TRUST NOT THE MEDIA!
 
If it fell out of this 6-year old's pocket, I somehow doubt it was a 1911. :rolleyes:

That said, I imagine there are a number of "Saturday Night Specials" that aren't the best designed in the world.... Why do I get the feeling that a 6-year old w/ a gun and an SNS might be associated?

ON THE OTHER HAND... I looked at the Ross Elem School stats:
http://www.city-data.com/school/ross-elementary2-tx.html

...and it appears to be a pretty high performing school.
So go figure.
 
...there are plenty of 1911's in this country that are prone to inertia discharge.
Click to expand...

What does this mean? What are you basing this on? Something you read? Read on...When I first bought my new Series 80, I had actually never carried it before in condition one and had a little trepidation to carrying one in the pipe. I had read it was safe to do so, but wasnt sure I trusted it. A test was in order. I didnt want to use my new mint 45 for a bunch of drop tests, better use my dads old one, a Series 70 combat commander. So I loaded up a live primer into an otherwise empty case and chambered it. I then threw it across the room too many times. I sent it rolling and tumbling across the carpeted floor to crash into the wall with it chambered, cocked, and unlocked. I tried a muzzle first drop both locked and unlocked from shoulder height. After awhile it was apparent that it was not going to fire the primer unless I went into serious abuse mode. I didnt want to abuse it, just see if it was prone to firing from being dropped. It was not, so I stopped.

Maybe it would be better to say that the potential exists for it to drop fire. The 1911 design is certainly not "prone to" drop firing. These pistols are safer than you may think.
 
Edward, the 1911 design can, and has, fired when dropped on the muzzle. Your informal test does not change that fact. The formal testing by Springfield Armory (the Government one, not the commercial firm) proved that dropping the gun from above a certain height on the muzzle onto a hard surface can cause the weapon to discharge.
Colt developed a safety system (like the series 80 system) a long time ago - I own a slide that was cut for it). They gave up on it, revived it in the series 80, and let it fade again. Seems everything had to go exactly wrong for the gun to fire.

Now, drop and give me 50 for abusing a Commander by 'throwing it across the room'.
 
shootniron said:
I didn't see what kind of gun it was, but I do know that there are plenty of 1911's in this country that are prone to inertia discharge.
Click to expand...
Where?

An inertia discharge with a 1911 is possible only if the gun is dropped virtually directly on the muzzle. There have been two tests on how high the drop has to be. An older test, which has been cited many times on various gun forums, tested a slide/barrel assembly dropped straight down through a length of plastic pipe and could not induce an inertia fire at up to fifteen feet of drop height.

A newer test involved a complete gun and they were able to get inertia fires with drop heights of around three or four feet -- again, dropped directly on the muzzle. Newer 1911s that don't use a firing pin safety often use a lightweight firing pin and extra power firing pin spring, and these guns pass California's stringent drop test.

It is possible to induce a 1911 to fire if dropped, but you have to work hard to make it happen. I don't consider that being "prone to" inertia discharge at all. I can make a mess out my car by driving it into a bridge abutment, too, but I don't consider my car to be "prone to" damage from striking bridge abutments.
 
Let's just say that I have embarassing experience that is evidence to me that it will happen.

I did not say that ALL of them will, but I know SOME of them will. And, as many 1911's as have been produced, I can assure you that there are plenty of them that will suffer an ID if it hits right. Now, is it not prudent to treat them like they will, when we don't know which will and which won't. We will treat a gun like it is loaded when we know full well that it is not.....and we do that because it is prudent.
 
Last edited:
The new Ruger 1911 is a "Series 70" type action, but instead of adding a firing pin blocker they did the smart thing and put a titanium firing pin in. This is what Colt should have done instead of adding the complexity of the series 80. The Ti firing pin is lighter and doesn't have enough inertia to crank one off on any sort of drop. Ti pins can also be easily retrofitted to any existing Series 70 and prior type.

As to the kid's gun: if there's one type I'd bet on this being, it's a Davis Derringer, a horrible little pot-metal piece of crap that for many years sold by the ton for a list price of $89. The other main possibility is an NAA minirevolver with the hammer set to the wrong position (on top of a primer), which is very likely if a 6 year old was messing with it. Both would fit in the front pocket of a kid that small.
 
It is possible to induce a 1911 to fire if dropped, but you have to work hard to make it happen. I don't consider that being "prone to" inertia discharge at all. I can make a mess out my car by driving it into a bridge abutment, too, but I don't consider my car to be "prone to" damage from striking bridge abutments.
Click to expand...

Actually, your example is kinda backwards. Yes, your car is definitely "prone to" damage from striking bridge abutments. Maybe it isn't "prone to" striking bridge abutments and maybe 1911's aren't "prone to" being dropped. The discussion isn't about that part, though. It is about the results IF the first action happens.
 
Hey, almost all here agree on the 1911 drop fire, it has been documented after all. Alot of old firearms could have discharged from a fall. But, first lets have the facts of the incident , not speculation. A 6 year old could not have had a 1911 in his pocket without it being noticed, heck, it would probably pull his pants down. So, does anyone have more info on this incident? I would like to know exactly what kind of firearm was involved. The media has a way of twisting the truth, that's if they even mention it. And this should be taken as a lesson, kids do and will get into anything they can, remember your youth? And second, how did a responsible (maybe? hopefully!) gun owner leave something like this somewhere a child could get it? Happy that no one was seriuosly hurt. But it shouldn't have happened at all!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top