Discard barrel after squibb load

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HighValleyRanch

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At a recent firearms class, the instructor made a remark that once one had a squibb load in a gun, the barrel should be discarded because of possible micro fractures caused by the squibb round getting stuck in the barrel.

I have never heard this before, and question whether a squibb load can cause enough pressure to fracture the barrel, yet not have enough ump to exit the bullet?

Is this statement true or false and why?
Thanks,
HVR
 
I say false unless another round was fired before clearing the squib which will usually cause a bulge
 
If a round has been fired with a bullet stuck in the barrel, the barrel probably has bulged and might be cracked. If it has cracked, it must be replaced (or cut off if the crack is at the end); there is no way to fix it. A bulge might mean replacing the barrel, but with low pressure cartridges it might still be usable.

But a squib load that has been shot out with only powder (no bullet) or driven out with a metal rod, there is no problem with the barrel other than (maybe) scratches if the rod is hard steel.

Jim
 
To be clear, we are not talking about firing 2nd round after the first stuck squib load.
He was saying that even the initial squib load would cause damage to the barrel because of micro fracturing.
 
I have always been told never to shoot out a stuck bullet with a powder only round. I've been told that the danger is a bulged barrel -- just as surely a full round following the squib. Getting the stuck bullet out with penetrating oil and a brass rod -- while it spoils your shooting session -- is far less costly.
willr
 
He was saying that even the initial squib load would cause damage to the barrel because of micro fracturing.
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The only difference between a squib load and a regular cartridge is a lack of energy for the bullet to make it out of the barrel. If a squib load coming to stop in barrel can "micro fracture" the barrel, then full powered ammunition should be tearing barrels apart.
 
Not that my reloading skills have EVER resulted in a squib load (snicker, snicker)....

And not that one (or even five or six) personal examples are worth anything statistically...

I've not noticed any difference at all in the guns where I've had a squib. And the squibs have always been very apparent because of the different sound and recoil of the shot so I've never put a second bullet down a blocked barrel.

And since I've already admitted you can't really make a good generalization out of just a few personal observations you can take this with a very big grain of salt.

In short, just saying your instructor is wrong.
 
A squib round is one that didn't have enough force behind it to push it out the barrel. There was NOTHING in the first event that would have applied as much force or stress to the barrel as a properly ignited/powered round.

A second round fired while the squib load was still lodged in the barrel COULD (and probably WOULD) have caused problems.

The instructor doesn't know what he's talking about.
 
I agree that I think the instructor was wrong in his theory.

But giving the idea some benefit of doubt:
1. a fully charged round having enough pressure to normally shoot the bullet out of the barrel will not damage the barrel because the total force is exiting THROUGH the barrel.

2. A squib load ends with the bullet stuck in the barrel, so any remaining force will then exert force WITHIN the barrel with an outward pressure.

3. So the question would be if there could some balance of power (partial ignition or partial powder charge) that would be light enough to get the bullet stuck in the barrel, yet have enough force behind it (once the bullet was stuck) to create enough outward pressure on the barrel to cause micro fracturing?

That might be the theory???
Not saying this can happen, only that this might be his logic.

As qualifying range officer, he was concerned enough about this incident as to not allow the participant to continue qualify with that weapon until the barrel was replace. I guess because of liability reasons.

Again, no second round discharged, just the initial squib.
No bulge, just disqualified on this premiss.
 
A squib load ends with the bullet stuck in the barrel, so any remaining force will then exert force WITHIN the barrel with an outward pressure.
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This is simply wrong. When the bullet comes to a stop it no longer has any force. You're describing it as if it is a car that hits a wall (comes to a sudden stop) and exerts a force on the wall. This isn't what is happening. The bullet does not have enough energy to continue it's travel down the barrel. It is stopped by friction, as it would be normally if it didn't have enough energy. Think of it as a shuffleboard/air hockey puck that runs out of energy before reaching the end of the board. When it stops it isn't exerting a sudden burst of force against the board. Its stoppage is the result of friction across its entire travel.

I'm not trying to insult this range officer. I've encountered a lot of people who felt they knew what they were talking about simply because it was what someone else once told them. That doesn't make them right. The degree of misinformation in the firearms community is immense.
 
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HighValleyRanch said:
..2. A squib load ends with the bullet stuck in the barrel, so any remaining force will then exert force WITHIN the barrel with an outward pressure.
Click to expand...

If there was any remaining force, the bullet wouldn'tve stopped in the middle of the barrel!! It stopped because there was no remaining force...

The instructor in question doesn't have a clue.
 
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But giving the idea some benefit of doubt:
1. a fully charged round having enough pressure to normally shoot the bullet out of the barrel will not damage the barrel because the total force is exiting THROUGH the barrel.

2. A squib load ends with the bullet stuck in the barrel, so any remaining force will then exert force WITHIN the barrel with an outward pressure.
Click to expand...


Uh... no.

The gas pressure acts in all directions. That's how gas pressure works.:D

A normal round may have 35,000 psi and that pressure acts outward as well as laterally through the barrel on the base of the bullet. A squib load may only have a few thousand psi. When you put the numbers on paper, the instructors "hypothesis" looks sort of weak... like the power behind a squib.
 
HighValleyRanch said:
He was saying that even the initial squib load would cause damage to the barrel because of micro fracturing.
Click to expand...
Impossible. If what he says were possible, then slugging a barrel should also cause "micro fracturing."

Find an instructor who knows something about firearms.
 
Shooting out a stuck bullet is perfectly feasible BUT USING ABOUT A HALF CHARGE OF POWDER AND NO BULLET. And do NOT try it with a factory blank cartridge!

The reason the barrel bulges when a bullet is fired into the stuck bullet is that when the second bullet stops, its kinetic energy is dumped as heat. The heat rise occurs so fast and dissipates so fast that there is little outward sign, but it is enough to soften the barrel steel so the pressure creates a bulge. That heat can compromise the barrel steel in that spot.

Jim
 
James K said:
...The reason the barrel bulges when a bullet is fired into the stuck bullet is that when the second bullet stops, its kinetic energy is dumped as heat. The heat rise occurs so fast and dissipates so fast that there is little outward sign, but it is enough to soften the barrel steel so the pressure creates a bulge. That heat can compromise the barrel steel in that spot.
Click to expand...

And THAT may have been the issue the "instructor" was trying to address when he said what he said. He either didn't mention the second shot being fired, or the person hearing the story MISSED that part. (Micro-fractures, however, is inconsistent with what happens.)

I've heard anecdotal stories -- don't know if it really happened -- of H&K sales reps actually firing an underloaded round to create a Squibb, and then firing a second shot to clear it -- demonstrating the robustness of the H&K product.

Such stories are like fundaments: everybody's got one.
 
A squib load happens with a round having little or no powder charge in the case, and the primer ignites with a pop and the bullet typically gets lodged in the chamber leade of the barrel, sometimes further down in the barrel. Drop a punch in the muzzle end of the barrel and hammer out the stuck bullet and the gun should be OK to go, although I'd stop using whatever ammo you are shooting since it is definitely suspect to have additional undercharged or uncharged rounds.
 
From what's been described there'd be no reason for a barrel replacement. It looks like the instructor was more liability conscious than anything else. So he made a remark about replacing the barrel. And, of course, figuring no replacement barrel was readily available during the class that would take that firearm (and student) off the range. He terminated the risk of liability he perceived might be headed in his direction.

But how was the rest of the class? Did you learn anything useful? Was he able to help you improve your shooting?
 
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