Different weapons/your ability

M

Maximus856

New member
I'm here to ask how different weapons shoot for you all. I know everyone says its the shooter who makes the gun, but how true is this for you personally? I carry a M9 as my sidearm, and to be honest am horrible with it. I like to think of myself as a pretty good shooter, however these past 2 weeks at qualification and shooting competition have proven otherwise with this weapon. All of the shooting for the competition is at 25 yards one handed. I did HORRIBLE to say the least. However, yesterday I went to the indoor range and fired a Sig .40S&W same style at 25 yards and kept it within the 6" circle.

So in a nutshell, do some firearms make it seem like you couldn't hit the broadside of the barn or am I doing something completely wrong?

-Max
 
Well, the stress of qualification or competition could be a major contributing factor.

I also would consider shooting 6" groups @ 25 yards with a handgun one-handed to be very good shooting. Unmodified handguns of this type (full-size, "combat" handguns) are generally good for 3" groups @ 25 yards from a rest, some maybe 2" - 2 1/2". So shooting one-handed, I would be quite happy with 6" groups at 25 yards.

Everybody's hands are different, and some people shoot best with a Beretta M9/92FS, some shoot best with a Sig P226, some shoot best with a Glock, and some shoot best with something else altogether.

I'd recommend getting some more trigger time with the M9 to improve your marksmanship with it. Like you, I prefer Sig Sauer handguns and generally shoot better with a Sig. But that doesn't mean that you can't learn to shoot well with the M9. You might just need some extra time to become proficient, but that in and of itself does not mean you're not a good shooter. It just means that its not your ideal handgun, that's all.
 
Providing the guns fit my hands the next factor that affects how well I shoot is trigger quality. I shoot the best with my Springfield XDs. Next best with my Glocks which all have the NY 1 Trigger spring and last with my S+W Sigma which has a heavy 11 pound trigger. There isn't alot of difference in how well I shoot them but there is a difference in how fast I shoot them well. The heavier the trigger the longer it takes to make the kind of controlled squeeze that will give you effective hits. No matter what you shoot it all comes down to practice. The more you practice the better you'll shoot.
 
So in a nutshell, do some firearms make it seem like you couldn't hit the broadside of the barn or am I doing something completely wrong?
Click to expand...

If you shoot markedly poorer with one pistol than another, it's probably you, the pistol, or both. I know that's very nearly a tautology, but would like to suggest you break the problem into separate components.

Here are two examples:

  1. If a gun has large stocks, I'll probably shoot it worse. I have average or slightly smaller than average hands, but have been accustomed to fairly small stocks quite a few years. Could I get used to large stocks? Yeah, but I'm old and set in my ways.
  2. I shoot noticeably better with a thumb rest than without. Again, I could probably get used to doing without, but would rather not.

Here's what I've recommended to students, usually with fairly good to good success:


  1. Take two guns to the range and alternate five or ten shots between them. A center fire and a .22 long rifle are ideal.
  2. Shoot ten rounds. Back away from the bench and so something else for a minute. Shoot ten rounds. Repeat.
  3. Shoot close. Shoot far. Shoot somewhere in between. Shoot close again.
  4. Shoot one round. Take five deep breaths. Shoot one round. Take five breaths.

In my experience, 98% of poor shooting is attributable to trigger control that needs to be altered and/or frustration. For new shooters, trigger control tends to be the larger factor; at my age, it's more likely frustration.

Best of success to you, eh?
 
I'll take a 6" group TWO handed at 25 yards.

Now, having said that, I find that the biggest limiting factor in how well I shoot any particular handgun is my ability to visualize the front sight. Having shot da revolvers for years I can hold anything steady through a trigger cycle. It doesn't matter to me whether the gun has a heavy trigger or a light one, or whether I'm firing single or double action, I can generally hold it steady. But, it DOES matter a lot that I can visualize the gun's front sight.

My aging eyes aren't the sharpest in the world and I've never been able to find corrective lenses that simultaneously allow me to see the front sight and the target. So, there's always a little guesswork involved for me when I shoot. But, I see some front sights better than others. I have no problem seeing the front sight on my 1911, hence, I shoot it very well. In contrast, I find the skinny blade sight on my S & W model 36 to be almost invisible. I do not shoot that gun well at all.
 
I shoot my Springfield TRP 1911 the best. The gun seems to point itself and I'm usually pretty proud of my groupings.

My Glock 22? Not so good. I love the gun and it's very reliable but for some reason I'm pretty terrible with it. Have never figured out why either. The gun shoots well for other people, but for me, I struggle with it.
 
Thanks for all of the input and tips guys. Perhaps I should be more clear, the 6" groups is the best I did, and not always consistant. I have a lot of room to improve and saw that even in my personal time of shooting the Sig, but it just seemed very odd that the difference between the two was so drastic. I'll take the tips here and try them out next time at the range. Tomorrow is the last day of individual competition with the pistols and rifles, and then wednesday and thursday is team competitions. Hopefully, I can drastically improve my pistol results tomorrow though. Thanks again, and any further input is greatly appreciated!

-Max
 
give this a try

Take a target and turn it over so you are looking at a blank piece of paper with no marks on it. If you have too use a plain sheet of paper from your printer. Aim at its center and shoot. Now aim at your bullet hole and shoot again. If you hit low it is generally from a combination of the following. You are looking to see where you hit as soon as you pull the trigger. This pulls the end of the barrel down and you hit low. The other is you are anticipating the recoil and jerking the gun down. You can be doing either of these or both. To cure the recoil thing have a friend with you and have that person load your gun. You won't know if there is one round or 5 in the mag. then shoot it. You will see on the second shot if it goes off or not. If your gun has a locking slide on the last round make a dummie round by loading a round with no primer it will feed perfectly but of course not fire. :) To cure the looking to see where you hit. Practice keeping your eye focused on the sights and shoot till the gun is empty. This is a hard one as we all want to know where we shot. Coursity is a bummer at times.
 
So in a nutshell, do some firearms make it seem like you couldn't hit the broadside of the barn or am I doing something completely wrong?
Click to expand...
Max, some guns just don't naturally shoot well with some people, even if they like the gun.

With my gun (XDM9) a lot of people shoot low and left, but they can usually overcome the issue with changes to their grip or trigger pull. Like you, these same people can pick up another brand and have no problem hitting the target as intended.
 
I shoot well with some handguns and very poorly with others. I like Colts and shoot my Trooper Mark III well. But I could never shoot my Python well. Never could figure that one out to my satisfaction other than to say that the poor shooting had to be attributed to youth and the Trooper being shot years later.

Clearly some guns fit you better than others. I shoot my Glocks fairly well and 1911's just average.

Experience matters.
 
I took my first 6 or 8 classes with a Sig P239 (40S&W). I learned to shoot it very well even though the single stack grip frame is just a tad large for my hand. I was chasing the elusive Distinguished Graduate score, always missing it by just a few points. One weekend, I just could not get "on" with the Sig so 1/2 way through the class I swapped it out for my Ruger Security Six, which I had not trained or even dry practiced with. With not a lot of time left before the skills test, I managed my first Distinguished Graduate score using full power .357 magnum loads.

I now have a couple of semi autos with slightly smaller grip frames then the Sig has and I shoot them straight out of the box a lot better than I ever shot the Sig. I really wanted the Sig to work for me (and it does) but it feels a lot like a brick in my hand compared to my new 1911's.
 
It all just depends.

For just a moment, I'll use simply two handguns.

My Browning HP. It itself is "Mechanically accurate", 3" groups if I choose the right ammo (If I don't: it's 6" groups,rested). However fast shooting, drill shooting,etc. I can't shoot it worth a........ If I carefully take my time, it is accurate, even offhand. But notch up the speed....No-go.

It might help if I put a set of 3-dot's on it, but even short-range point-shooting, it just don't feel as good as gun #2.

Compare that to my Sig 226 .40. The thing HITS...it's the one gun I feel completely 100% confidant in. If it's there, I WILL hit it. 4" offhand groups at 25 yards is a virtual garuntee. Rapid-fire (Fast as you pull the trigger) 6" groups are attainable if you're carefull. Left-handed, one hand shooting it still stays in 6"..

It just "Feeeellllssss riiight".

It's funny, but alot of it is personal preferance. Compare that, My dad doesn't own one, but felt the same way with a Glock .40 we had on loan for awhile. Whereas he isn't real comfortable with my Sig...
 
time vs patience

After many years I shoot all the guns I still own well (enough), but as with any high-level skill, true proficiency mandates continuous (perfect) practice.
 
Adequate shooting at self defense distances doesn't require a lot of practice regardless of the gun unless it's a derringer or some tiny handgun (in my opinion). Being "proficient" requires practice. It is muscle training for the most part.

I liken it to instinctive shooting with a bow. I can put the bow away for the winter and pick it up in the early summer and still shoot it pretty darn well. You keep shooting and you get a little worse, and then your accuracy returns.

But with a handgun, you're likely not shooting 2" groups at 15 yards either it you don't practice.
 
So in a nutshell, do some firearms make it seem like you couldn't hit the broadside of the barn or am I doing something completely wrong?
Click to expand...

Definitely! I'd put my Glock 17 in that catagory. I shoot well enough with it to about 30 feet. But, I am much better with a number of my other guns.

One thing I want to mention - as much as I hated my Taurus PT-99 for the locking block/frame problem I had with it, I was very accurate with this gun. When I replaced it with a Smith 659, it took me awhile to get accurate with that, but i eventually mastered that pistol.

I've just never been able to be all that accurate with my Glock 17. Good enough for home defense...........but not impressing anyone at the range with this gun, that's for sure.
 
I shoot my Sig P232 in .380 best. No, make that my Ruger MK II .22.

Truth be told, I shoot light calibers best, if it's a good, accurate pistol. But I can shoot my Glock 36 .45 ACP pretty well, too! And I'm very good at slow-fire with my Government Model. I'm 55 and I've been shooting a long time but I'm not too proud to ask for lessons. Maybe I will.
 
Ruger MkII (7 1/2" barrel) the most accurate then my S&W model 19 (6"). I shoot my 1911's the fastest on the plate range and of those my Kimber Compact will make one ragged hole at 10yds.

I typically shoot a gun with its purpose in mind. I rarely shoot my semi's (x-the MKII) at ranges over 10yds. My 3" SP101 is my worst but the trigger is getting better (this in with double action).
 
I have yet, in 50 + years of shooting, to fire any well made correctly working hand gun that is not more accurate than I am. Now that is not a high standard, as to me any handgun is only a tool for self-defense and as long as I can keep my shots,using full power ammo, center of mass, fired at one shot a second I feel good about my abilities.
 
Last edited:
A very good thread! And as we age, a very important idea to consider.

I've always had Terry Tussey put huge colored sights on my pistols. At one time I utilized that feature for quick target acquisition.

But over the years I developed presbyopia. I could see a fly on my nose and a praire dog at 400 yards, but I couldn't see a thing at that "comfortable reading distance." The same distance of the front sight of a pistol.

I have adapted firearms for my weakness.

Tussey.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top