different case dimensions, Win vs. Rem .30-30

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ipscchef

New member
My friend bought a model 94 a few years ago. Just after he got it he called me cussing his head off that it would not feed at all. When he came up for Deer Camp that year, he handed to me and said that he still could not get it to feed even after trying every trick we could think of to smooth out the action. I took it out to my gun room/garage, grabbed a box of 150gr. Win. silvertips I had on hand, and the gun fed perfectly, time after time. He got his range bag out, grabbed his box of Remington CorLocts' and the gun would not feed them at all!! Upon looking at the two bullets, the case of the Winchester was noticibly different than the Remingtons, I mean very different!
The shoulder of, I believe the Win. ammo was set back much further than the Rem. ammo. And there were other differences, the neck was a different length, among other things. We went to Gander Mountain the next day and opened a box of each from the shelf, and saw the same differences.

Has anyone else had this experience? I am no Gunsmith, or expert on firearms, but this seems strange. We have compared the two different bullets from at least 6 different boxes and the results are always the same.
Can someone tell me what is going on here? I thought the SAAMI specs would have not allowed this to happen, but check it out for yourselves. This just seems strange to me.


Needless to say Tony, my friend uses only the Winchester stuff now, but I would still like to know if others have seen this difference or could give me a reasonable explanation.
 
by chance?

Is there any chance you are looking at either a) .30 Remington ammo, ( a vintage proprietary Rem ctg, or.....b) the new .30 Rem AR (developed for the AR type hunting rifles)?

Both of these are worlds different than the "traditional" .30-30 ammo.

Cases marked .30-30 should/are interchangeable from one mfger to another. Sounds like you have something different.

Oh yeah.......a "bullet" is what is discharged from the firearm, an unfired round of ammo is ususally refered to as a cartridge, a round, etc.
 
No, I made sure that we were comparing apples to apples

As in 30-30 to 30-30, not 30 Rem. that was something I checked. I am not that much of a newbie, I have been loading on a Diillon 550 for years, as well as Dillon 650 when I was competing in and RO'ing IPSC matches, and you are right, it is a "cartrige", not a Bullet, that is something I tend to correct people on also.

But honest to God 'Bama, next time you are in a gun store and can open a box of Remington and Winchester 30-30's, or if you know someone who has a box of both, check it out. I know it does sound a little crazy, but the shoulder setback and the neck length is different from each other on those two brands. I have seen it at least 3 different comparisons of cartriges from different lot #'s.
 
Pics would be nice bit I would agree with the board. Might be a box of mis labled. Hmmm, wonder if thishas never jappened before......What did the case base say they were?
 
I had a Remington 700 BDL (7mm Rem Mag) years ago that would not chamber Remington ammo, only Winchester. Found it to have an "oval" chamber later. (Rotate the fired round 90º and it would not go back in). But it shows there is a difference in how different manufacturer's "size" the cases.
 
Yes I have seen it happen, the gun (my fathers Remington 700) would only load one brand of ammo (Remington) for some reason it wouldnt load Winchester or Federal ect. He sent it back but they returned it saying that it "was within spec" so he got a custom reloading (resizing) die matched to the chamber (this was the cheapest option).
 
I went out to the ammo shelf and pulled three factory rounds out of boxes to get pics. All are .30-30 150 grain loads. On the left is an older (at least 10 years, not sure of exact date of purchase) Remmington Core-Lokt, center is a similar vintage Winchester Super X, and right is a new purchase(within the last month) Remington Core-Lokt.

There does seem to be a difference between the older Remmington and both of the other two rounds.

One thing this points out to me is that I need to start putting dates on the boxes when I buy more ammo for the shelf...

DCP05269.JPG
 
thanks to you all

I appreciate the feedback, and it sounds like I may not be nuts afterall. I would like to thank thedaddycat especialy for putting up photos that seem to confirm my OP

TimR, you are right about pics, I am of the older generation and still have not learned how to put pics up, but stating what I did in my OP and not having photo evidence to show what I was trying to say was not the best way to discuss this topic. I will learn how to do it soon.

That does beg the question though, are SAAMI specs so loose that both of these cases fall within their parameters? The only explanation that I have come up with is that it being such an old cartrige that there have been some variations over the years, but that still does not really give a sound reason for this to occur.
Well, this is not the worst problem in the world, so I guess my friend and will file it in the "Learning Experience" folder and move on.

Thanks again to everyone who replied, that is what makes this is the best Firearm site on the net. #2 is the vast knowlege and experience, and #1 is the people that are here.

Bill "Willy" Henderson
 
cd3030winchester.jpg
 
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