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Differences in bullet type and killing power.
- Thread starter coyotewsm
- Start date
Some bullets are soft and expand quickly. They may not penetrate as deep, but do a lot of damage and typically put down game the fastest. As long as you hit the animal at an angle where they don't have to penetrate too deeply they do fine. This would include Nosler Ballistic Tips and Hornady SST's, Berger hunting bullets and several others. A good choice for long range since they will still expand even at slower speeds.
Other bullets are harder and expand slower. They are a better choice for larger animals or if taking shots from odd angles where you have to penetrate deep to reach vitals. They often give complete penetration and a good blood trail. An animal hit in the vitals with a hard bullet will die, it may take a little longer since there is less internal damage. Most bonded bullets such as the Nosler Accubond and the solid copper bullets are in this category. Not the best at longer ranges since they need more speed to expand.
Hollow points are usually used in either handguns or rifles with very slow velocity. They aid expansion at very slow speeds. Sometimes used in rifles where very explosive expansion is wanted on smaller game or varmints. At high speed penetration is very limited.
Most fall somewhere in between. Typical soft point bullets can range from soft to hard and each brand is a little different. Nosler Partitions are one of the best known. Remington Corelokts, Hornady Interlocks, and Winchester Power Points are examples. Other than the Partitions they are usually the least expensive and work pretty well for normal use.
They all work, they just work differently and the shooter needs to understand how they work. Don't ask a soft bullet to kill an elk shot in the butt. Wait till it turns and put it in the lungs. If you want to shoot an elk in the butt a hard bullet is more likely to work. And if you shoot a whitetail with a hard bullet don't expect it to drop in its tracks. It'll die, but you may have to track it a little ways.
Other bullets are harder and expand slower. They are a better choice for larger animals or if taking shots from odd angles where you have to penetrate deep to reach vitals. They often give complete penetration and a good blood trail. An animal hit in the vitals with a hard bullet will die, it may take a little longer since there is less internal damage. Most bonded bullets such as the Nosler Accubond and the solid copper bullets are in this category. Not the best at longer ranges since they need more speed to expand.
Hollow points are usually used in either handguns or rifles with very slow velocity. They aid expansion at very slow speeds. Sometimes used in rifles where very explosive expansion is wanted on smaller game or varmints. At high speed penetration is very limited.
Most fall somewhere in between. Typical soft point bullets can range from soft to hard and each brand is a little different. Nosler Partitions are one of the best known. Remington Corelokts, Hornady Interlocks, and Winchester Power Points are examples. Other than the Partitions they are usually the least expensive and work pretty well for normal use.
They all work, they just work differently and the shooter needs to understand how they work. Don't ask a soft bullet to kill an elk shot in the butt. Wait till it turns and put it in the lungs. If you want to shoot an elk in the butt a hard bullet is more likely to work. And if you shoot a whitetail with a hard bullet don't expect it to drop in its tracks. It'll die, but you may have to track it a little ways.
There is NO ANSWER to this question.
Bullet performance can't be generalized by point shape.
Bullet expansion/penetration can be controlled by jacket thickness, jacket composition/hardness, and core density, or a combination of these but in most cases, velocity also plays a part in performance. In addition, there are monolithic bullets that incorporate point shape and material density/malleability as part of their expansion parameters.
"Sofft pointed tumble( I think) and have good penetration"
This is incorrect. The only bullets that are designed to intentionally tumble are certain types of FMJ military types.
Bullet performance can't be generalized by point shape.
Bullet expansion/penetration can be controlled by jacket thickness, jacket composition/hardness, and core density, or a combination of these but in most cases, velocity also plays a part in performance. In addition, there are monolithic bullets that incorporate point shape and material density/malleability as part of their expansion parameters.
"Sofft pointed tumble( I think) and have good penetration"
This is incorrect. The only bullets that are designed to intentionally tumble are certain types of FMJ military types.
jaytothekizzay
New member
If you are shooting 300s id dont matter what type of bullet you use...it will go down.
"Sofft pointed tumble( I think) and have good penetration"
This is incorrect. The only bullets that are designed to intentionally tumble are certain types of FMJ military types.
Actually, this is incorrect. ALL bullets that are longer than they are wide will tumble, if they penetrate enough. This is most pronounced and most easily SEEN in some FMJ RIFLE bullets.
What differs is how much distance through flesh the bullet has to travel before the tumble becomes enough to see.
All the "classic" military FMJs in .30/8mm calibers will tumble, BUT the amount of tissue they will go through before starting to tumble is more than the average human, so the effect was seldom noted. "Yaw" is the start of a tumble.
The famous "tumbling" 5.56mm slugs got famous because they noticeably tumbled within the distance of the average human body.
Remember what bullets are. Essentially a cylinder, with a pointed end. The back end is the heavy end (the longer more pointed the nose, the more pronounced the effect) so as soon as the rotational stability is compromised (by hitting something) the upset gets worse, and eventually the bullet will swap ends (tumble).
Note how the famous "dangerous game" bullets are not very pointed. In fact, most of them are as close to a flat point as practical (within caliber range). Part of the reason is for shock but another part is to resist (or delay) the tumble taking over until after some FEET of flesh has been penetrated.
If you might need to shoot a water buffalo the long way, you don't want tumbling or expansion reducing penetration. On the other hand, when you are shooting a double handspan thick human, and your bullet has more than enough penetration already, tumbling isn't a drawback and can increase effectiveness in the target.
bamaranger
New member
more
All bullets tumble, eventually, if they penetrate enough. . ...paraphrased.
Yes, certainly true. I'd add that in addition to the bullet profile, that the twist rate of the barrel launching the slug has an effect on how stable the bullet is from the onset.
The 5.56 bullets tumbling got reduced, when the twist rate got changed over the years from 1/12-1/14 of the early Armalite design, of the Vietnam era, to the 1/9 or 1/7 we have now in the search for accuracy and stability of the longer, sometimes heavier, slugs of the current age. There was an issue about stability at long range and arctic air too.
The stopping power is indeed a loaded question. We bat it about constantly.
Finally, haven't I heard that the Comm-Bloc develop a slug that had a "knocker" in it that moved forward upon impact, destabilizing the slug in the hopes of enhancing tumbling? Can't remember if that was myth or fact or if indeed so, if it worked.
All bullets tumble, eventually, if they penetrate enough. . ...paraphrased.
Yes, certainly true. I'd add that in addition to the bullet profile, that the twist rate of the barrel launching the slug has an effect on how stable the bullet is from the onset.
The 5.56 bullets tumbling got reduced, when the twist rate got changed over the years from 1/12-1/14 of the early Armalite design, of the Vietnam era, to the 1/9 or 1/7 we have now in the search for accuracy and stability of the longer, sometimes heavier, slugs of the current age. There was an issue about stability at long range and arctic air too.
The stopping power is indeed a loaded question. We bat it about constantly.
Finally, haven't I heard that the Comm-Bloc develop a slug that had a "knocker" in it that moved forward upon impact, destabilizing the slug in the hopes of enhancing tumbling? Can't remember if that was myth or fact or if indeed so, if it worked.
The reality is that the bullet type matters less than it's construction and design.
There are a lot of different types of hollow points, with differing performance based on different design decisions based on the intended use.
Varmint hollow points, designed for extremely rapid expansion in small thin skinned game would probably make a mess in a deer, but without deep penetration, and while probably fatal would not be instantly so.
Match hollow points don't generally expand at all, and would most likely act like a FMJ, pass right through with a smallish exit wound, and are not really suitable for hunting.
Medium/big game hunting hollow points are designed to expand in larger game with good penetration, and would work great for deer.
To further confuse things, bringing the polymer tips into the equasion, there are Match (Hornady AMAX) Varmit (Hornady V-Max, Sierra Blitzking, Nosler BT-Varmint) and big game (Hornady SST, Nosler BT-Hunting) versions of those as well.
For your application, I wouldn't worry about it, beyond using a bullet that is intended for deer sized game, go with the one that shoots the best.
There are a lot of different types of hollow points, with differing performance based on different design decisions based on the intended use.
Varmint hollow points, designed for extremely rapid expansion in small thin skinned game would probably make a mess in a deer, but without deep penetration, and while probably fatal would not be instantly so.
Match hollow points don't generally expand at all, and would most likely act like a FMJ, pass right through with a smallish exit wound, and are not really suitable for hunting.
Medium/big game hunting hollow points are designed to expand in larger game with good penetration, and would work great for deer.
To further confuse things, bringing the polymer tips into the equasion, there are Match (Hornady AMAX) Varmit (Hornady V-Max, Sierra Blitzking, Nosler BT-Varmint) and big game (Hornady SST, Nosler BT-Hunting) versions of those as well.
For your application, I wouldn't worry about it, beyond using a bullet that is intended for deer sized game, go with the one that shoots the best.
Boogershooter
New member
I'm a big fan of the 300 wsm. Best velocity for amount of recoil from any of the magnums. I shoot the federal 150 grain ballistic tips. Its never let me down. I do choose my shots carefully. I've made neck shots, and head on chest shots, but I prefer broadside tight behind the shoulder shots. They always go down and only a couple have tried to get up. I don't shoot in the shoulder or in the buttox because I hunt for meat. I tried the partitions but didn't get any expansion and the deer surely didn't drop but if you like to shoot thru both shoulders that may be the best choice.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
I suppose if you were on the receiving end you could distinguish their differences. Than again~~~ maybe not.
As I see bullets there are two categories. Lead tipped or meat destroyers. That simple analogy has served me well over the years.
As I see bullets there are two categories. Lead tipped or meat destroyers. That simple analogy has served me well over the years.
" Actually, this is incorrect. ALL bullets that are longer than they are wide will tumble, if they penetrate enough."
But, is this part of the design? I SPECIFIED " The only bullets that are designed to intentionally tumble are certain types of FMJ military types.". The Russian 5.45x39 N76(?) is DESIGNED to destabilize(tumble). The original 5.56x45 became known for tumbling, rupturing, and going to pieces within a few inches in flesh but again, was this DESIGNED or simply consequence.
But, is this part of the design? I SPECIFIED " The only bullets that are designed to intentionally tumble are certain types of FMJ military types.". The Russian 5.45x39 N76(?) is DESIGNED to destabilize(tumble). The original 5.56x45 became known for tumbling, rupturing, and going to pieces within a few inches in flesh but again, was this DESIGNED or simply consequence.
handlerer2
New member
I have to disagree with post#8. You can wound an animal with a magnum rifle of any caliber. I shoot and reload for amoung others, 300WBY and 340 WBY.
Chamberings with this much energy can do unexpected things to bullets.
A bullet that expands with a terminal velocity of say 2000fps, and suitable to 308 class rifles can fragment on impact and completely fail to penetrate, at 3000fps, wounding an animal to suffer a slow death.
IMO magnum rifles require more attention to bullet type than more moderately powered cartridges.
Chamberings with this much energy can do unexpected things to bullets.
A bullet that expands with a terminal velocity of say 2000fps, and suitable to 308 class rifles can fragment on impact and completely fail to penetrate, at 3000fps, wounding an animal to suffer a slow death.
IMO magnum rifles require more attention to bullet type than more moderately powered cartridges.
themalicious0ne
New member
If match hollow points act as an fmj, do they yaw faster? Or what is the point besides better accuracy and stabilization. I've heard of sof guys even liking the mk262 mod 1 for close work vs long range. Same with hornady 75gr tap for swat. If that simply because the heavier weight or do they truly not expand at all?