Did you purchase an "Auto Key Card"?

M

Mike38

New member
If so, you may want to lawyer up. This is the first I've ever heard of an "Auto Key Card" but if I understand it correctly, it is a piece of stainless steel about the size of a credit card that's engraved with lines where you bend and/or machine, then install to turn an AR15 into full auto. The owner of the company was recently arrested for selling these items, and the BATFE is requesting that anyone that bought these should call them. I'm no lawyer, but I would think calling a lawyer first is in order. Video here:

https://youtu.be/f3zU2a3Xaak
 
I had never even heard of these things until the hubbub started. I have no dog in the fight but what the hell were these “supposed” to be?????

I mean I get they had an etching of an auto sear/link whatever on a credit card thing but what were they sold as??? Like the suppressors that were sold as “solvent traps” what were these supposed to be?
 
I thought the lighting link required a special bolt carrier ?
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Correct, and also special hammer, but there are enough M16 bolt carriers in use to be an issue for the BATFE. I'm not sure how they will make this fly, but I would not want to find out, either. They will probably bury some poor sucker in legal debt whether they win or lose.
 
I thought the lighting link required a special bolt carrier ?
Click to expand...

Correct, and also special hammer,
Click to expand...

There is at least one design that does not require a special hammer, only the GI M16 bolt carrier.

What bothers me most, at this point is the apparent inconsistency in the application of logic by a govt agency purporting to enforce the law.

We have a bad law with language in it capable of being very ..stretched, for starters. And, among other things, the law defines any part used only in a machinegun (or converting a semi to a machine gun) AS a machinegun, in and of itself. This is bad enough, but its been the law for a long time now, and we deal with it. But to make the case being reported, one needs a more than generous interpretation of constructive possession, which I can't see being remotely justified, based on what has been reported and a picture of the actual item being deemed a "machine gun".

Here's what I consider the logic flaw, based on a picture of the item, its a "card size" piece of metal with a drawing on it. Etched in or just ink printed, even if it has complete instructions "bend here, drill here", etc., its not a part.

Even if the court accepts the argument that the intent is that it is to be made into a machine gun part, it is an unfinished part. IF an 80% frame or receiver is not, by the ATF rulings, is not a firearm, HOW can a 0% (or a 1%?) finished piece of metal be a part? for anything??

Since I'm not privy to the details of the ATF's reasoning, I have no idea what they were thinking. All I see at this point is a tremendous double standard.

I suppose it will boil down to what the court believes was the intent of the manufacturer. There are a lot of things in our lives today that are deemed crimes based on intent.
 
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Who needs an "auto key go to jail via your friends at the ATF card" when you can make a lightening link with some scrap steel, a Dremel, a pair of dial calipers, and a blueprint?

Frankly, even that isn't worth the effort given the other parts needed to turn an AR from a scary black rifle into a Chicago Typewriter. A drop in auto sear is something that can be made on any Harbor Freight mini mill in a weekend and works with stock parts.

So my answer is nah, no man. I don't need one.
 
Here's what I consider the logic flaw, based on a picture of the item, its a "card size" piece of metal with a drawing on it. Etched in or just ink printed, even if it has complete instructions "bend here, drill here", etc., its not a part.

Even if the court accepts the argument that the intent is that it is to be made into a machine gun part, it is an unfinished part. IF an 80% frame or receiver is not, by the ATF rulings, is not a firearm, HOW can a 0% (or a 1%?) finished piece of metal be a part? for anything??

Since I'm not privy to the details of the ATF's reasoning, I have no idea what they were thinking. All I see at this point is a tremendous double standard.

I suppose it will boil down to what the court believes was the intent of the manufacturer. There are a lot of things in our lives today that are deemed crimes based on intent.
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Well, they have also recently gone after Polymer 80 (makes 80% Glock lowers) and Diversified Machine (makes solvent traps), so the ATF is on a roll here. I think they are in "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" mode. They don't have anything to lose from their point of view. Even if they lose the case, the current administration will pat them on the head and say "better luck next time".

They, the ATF and current administration, will continue to push the boundaries until they are stopped. They do not want the plebes to own guns or anything related to guns. They will continue to persecute us in the hopes that either they will set precedence for their next more draconian step, or until they have beat us into submission to the point that we forget that we have any rights at all except what the government allows us.
 
Ok...
I told this to my Dad. Then he shook his head, then he smiled real big.
(He is 90+ and likes visitor but virtually all of his friends have passed.)
He wanted to know if he posts he has several on FB could he get some visitors to come by?
What do you think? :D
 
TXAZ, I'm sure your Dad will get his wish. The visitors will be driving black Chevy Suburbans and wearing cheap black suits.
 
Again I ask what was the “purpose” these were sold as???? Art??? I don’t understand.

If some dude was basically selling punch out do it yourself lightning links how could he have not expect a chat with the Feds? I mean it’s not like he was selling canvas artwork or firearm components?

So I am confused were these literally sold as origami lightning links???? Or were they sold as something else?

I am so confused. On one side I want to shake my fist in anger on the other all I can think is if you poke the bear with a stick long enough he’s probably gonna eat you.
 
If some dude was basically selling punch out do it yourself lightning links how could he have not expect a chat with the Feds?
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There is "chat with the Feds" and then there is arrest, and seizure of your inventory, your business and your website, etc.

I have no information one way or the other, but consider this possibility:

Suppose the maker did have a "chat with the Feds" and they told him "go ahead, its not a gun part"...so, he did.

THEN, some time later, (6mo? a year? whatever) the Feds get a new boss and new marching orders and NOW they say its a machine gun, and bust him.

Could this be a situation like the bump fire stocks? Less publicized in the media, but essentially the same. "its ok go ahead" and then later deciding it is a regulated NFA item and a crime since it lacks NFA registration?

and on a further chilling note, could we all be at risk of Federal prosecution for talking about it? Does having that (or similar) drawing in a book (or on a t-shirt) constitute grounds for charging us with conspiracy to violate Fed firearms laws???

I'd say no, but they might say otherwise, perhaps not today, but somewhere down the road??

think on it...
 
The Auto Key Card that is currently in the spotlight (yes there are others) is not etched.
People presume such and reports keep echoing such, because it makes sense. But that is absolutely not the case.
It was a printed pattern on the sheet metal.
That is all.
It is a printed pattern.
The metal is unaltered.

The ATF is going after a drawing.

So, about the same as deciding that anyone with a book that has a picture of an M16 fire control group is now an owner of an illegal machine gun.
 
44 AMP said:
There is "chat with the Feds" and then there is arrest, and seizure of your inventory, your business and your website, etc.

...

and on a further chilling note, could we all be at risk of Federal prosecution for talking about it? Does having that (or similar) drawing in a book (or on a t-shirt) constitute grounds for charging us with conspiracy to violate Fed firearms laws???

I'd say no, but they might say otherwise, perhaps not today, but somewhere down the road??

think on it...
Click to expand...
There is a-not-dissimilar ITAR case (aka “Crypto Wars”) the Feds lost several years ago for cryptographic codes, otherwise controlled by ITAR Category XI: The feds claimed that publishing the source code for PGP / RSA / “BassOmatic” crypto in a book was an ITAR violation and filed a criminal complaint against Phil Zimmerman in 1995.

Munitions_T-shirt_%28front%29.jpg


A federal judge with common sense and an understanding of the Constitution ruled that printed source code was protected and not subject to ITAR.

So if this is “art” or printing a user hast to manufacture there may be a different outcome than if it’s deemed as part of a machine gun.

And as FrankenMauser notes, the Feds are going after a drawing, so they may have the uphill battle based on precedence.

We’ll see.
 
The Auto Key Card that is currently in the spotlight (yes there are others) is not etched.
People presume such and reports keep echoing such, because it makes sense. But that is absolutely not the case.
It was a printed pattern on the sheet metal.
That is all.
It is a printed pattern.
The metal is unaltered.

The ATF is going after a drawing.

So, about the same as deciding that anyone with a book that has a picture of an M16 fire control group is now an owner of an illegal machine gun.
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That definitely makes this even more draconian.

This is one that the NRA/GOA should be backing with legal assistance and take to the supreme court.

I hope they don't settle. Pin these bastages to the wall on this.
 
NRA never backs anything unless some other group has already pushed it far enough to make it look like they can win. Then the NRA jumps in with a "friend of the court" letter and claims, "Look what we did to protect your rights!"

Forget about the NRA.
 
I swear some of these companies and manufacturers constantly pushing the envelope of what's "legal" to sell, pose FAR more of a threat to our Constitutional rights than the anti gunners pose alone. They just give the anti's ammunition to use against lawful gun owners in the Ballot box. Public opinion can be easily swayed with a few wildly publicized examples. The long term damage is likely permanent. :mad:

Time to buy a 12 FPE or less air rifle, as the way things are looking, before long the USA will be just like England and low powered airguns will be about the only thing the majority of us will be permitted by the Police to own without registration / random house checks, etc. It IS coming. All part of the Global Agenda. :eek:
 
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