Did they just fire all the QC people???

F

fire4606

New member
What in the world happened to quality control with pistol makers??

In the last 30 yrs I've been buying g guns left and right, some years one or two deals, some years 10 or 12 deals, likes and wants change and I adjust my collection to reflect.

In all that time I have never had to send any pistol back to any manufacturer for any reason......

In the last 6 months, I've sent two back and am about to send my third.

Ruger Wiley Clapp, purchased new with a cylinder that would lock up, and was not hitting POA.

Smith and Wesson PC1911, fitment issues that were gouging the frame in multiple places, and again another gun not hitting POA.

And lastly a purchased used but unfired Dan Wesson 1911 shoots like a dream but has the wrong height front sight on it, causing 3" hi hits at just ten yards, and over a foot high at 35.

None of these are economy guns in my opinion, nor should they have arrived with the issues at hand.

Wondering if I've just hit a really bad run of luck, but really three in a row?? Or has QC become a thing of the past as they figure many won't take the time to send something back......?
 
I suspect simple economics: It has become cheaper to fix the occasional (perhaps even rare) problem than to QC them all.

W.
 
In the last 6 months, I've sent two back and am about to send my third.
Click to expand...
Discounting the one you mentioned was "previously owned" one suspension would be increase production demands due to the success of the World's best gun salesman in the White House.
Even though they have QC, the more you build, the more likely some will slip through.
 
I agree with Cheapshooter.

The more you crank out the more chances to miss a defect.
Same number of QC personnel and twice as many guns to inspect.
 
This seems to be a widespread problem. In the last few years I've had problems with 3 S&W revolvers, 2 Ruger 1911 CMD, a Browning Citori, a Kimber 1911, a Taurus PT100, and a Ruger LC9 and a Beretta 92FS. They assemble the guns from a box of parts and ship it. If a customer returns it the may repair it. Kinda makes me sick.
 
Not hitting POA with what ammo? QC isn't about hitting POA anyway(it's about stuff not breaking.), but any marketing nonsense about accuracy, etc is with very specific ammo only. Applies to all of your POA issues too. POA isn't a warrantee thing either.
 
Not hitting POA was side issues to two real issues, while they had the weapon they were asked to correct the additional issue, NEITHER company corrected the mis aligned sights issue, FYI...even though they were asked to and had the guns in their hands.

The Dan Wesson was pre owned unfired, regardless of that it comes with a .140 front sight and needs a .180 PER DAN WESSON, they are sent with the wrong front sight. Wrong front sight all together is a warranty QA issue to me.

An issue they have already agreed to fix if I send them the gun for up to 6 weeks to install the correct front sight. I've requested they just send me the correct front sight which is insanely cheaper and quicker for both sides, awaiting their response.
 
Aren't guns fired at the factory before shipping, with the test target, to verify that they work and nominally hit POA? Such a process would have uncovered some of your problems.

As to increased production -- that means more revenue, which should allow the manufacturers to hire more QC inspectors. Easy to do with Obamanomics creating oodles of available unemployed laborers. And, if firearm QC is one of those jobs Americans refuse to do, the open borders/amnesty policy now in effect is generating a sizeable discounted labor pool.
 
In the past 3 years I have had to send guns back to S&W, Sig, and Beretta, while I shouldn't have had to send them back in the first place, all three companies took care of me and had top notch customer service.
 
I started buying guns sometime around five years ago, and I would imagine I have bought at least 25 new handguns in that time. I have yet to have a problem with one, so I would say that you have just had some really bad luck recently.
 
Fixed sight guns are not normally adjusted at the factory; there should be no need. The barrel length and sight height are made to zero at a specific range with a specific ammunition. For example, for .38 Special, it is the "standard" 158 grain lead round nose bullet at 25 yards. Any other bullet/load will shoot to a different point. There is obviously no way any gun company can make a fixed sight handgun shoot every conceivable load to "point of aim."

Jim
 
Back in the day?

All the comments about today's QCD or lack of have been right on! 50yrs.ago these mass returns were'nt happening!:D
 
Based on improvements in manufacturing technology and materials I suspect any surge in bad quality is a myth unless someone has some real industry wide data that indicates otherwise. As someone mentioned earlier gun sales have soared over the last several years, so even if the overall defect rates went down you could still see more defective guns shipped based on the increase in overall volume. I hate to see someone get a bad gun, but not sure the evidence supports some major drop in the quality of modern firearms.
 
And lastly a purchased used but unfired Dan Wesson 1911 shoots like a dream but has the wrong height front sight on it, causing 3" hi hits at just ten yards, and over a foot high at 35.
Click to expand...

Unfired, no the factory did indeed fire the gun.
Being a used gun how can you be 100% certain the front sight was NOT changed by the previous owner?

All the comments about today's QCD or lack of have been right on!
Click to expand...
I disagree. As stated some non conforming parts/guns will get by. If a vehicle goes back to the dealer with warranty issues does that mean that QC is out the window??


50yrs.ago these mass returns were'nt happening
Click to expand...

Any proof of the above quote. One must take into consideration the sales to return ration from 50 years ago to today's numbers in order to compare percentages for a true picture with regards to QC.
 
Unfired, no the factory did indeed fire the gun.
Being a used gun how can you be 100% certain the front sight was NOT changed by the previous owner?
Click to expand...

ugh the term 'unfired' always makes me cringe every gun has been. Just a line from buyers to sellers. I agree if the gun was used theres no reason the owner wouldn't have switched it. different people get different results from sights.
 
All the comments about today's QCD or lack of have been right on! 50yrs.ago these mass returns were'nt happening!
Click to expand...

I don't agree. I think modern firearms are better than they have ever been. 50 years ago, if there was a problem, they fixed it themselves or had it fixed locally. You didn't have a warranty or even know where it was manufactured. We didn't expect or get perfection that the modern customer expects. Also, 50 years ago, there were far fewer guns sold because they were expensive for the average wage earner and not a priority. My Dad had one single shot shotgun and I had one single shot 22 rifle.
 
Unfired, no the factory did indeed fire the gun.
Being a used gun how can you be 100% certain the front sight was NOT changed by the previous owner?
Click to expand...

Yes Don, I Realize they are factory fired, I, me, personally, consider guns unfired if nobody, other than the factory test fire, has fired the gun...but anyway...

How do I know the owner didn't fire or change sights?? Left his original receipt in the box with the gun, he is local and I contacted him via facebook to get the guns history...

Fixed sight guns are not normally adjusted at the factory; there should be no need. The barrel length and sight height are made to zero at a specific range with a specific ammunition. For example, for .38 Special, it is the "standard" 158 grain lead round nose bullet at 25 yards. Any other bullet/load will shoot to a different point. There is obviously no way any gun company can make a fixed sight handgun shoot every conceivable load to "point of aim."

Jim
Click to expand...

Agree should be that way, but nobody can seem to find what ammo the 9mm guardians are set to with the .140" front ...115s, 124s, and 147s all seem to hit hi....and the y know it needs a .180"
 
Much of today's QC is different .Lots of statistical analysis to confuse you but balancing cost of trying to make them all perfect vs cost of repair vs cost of replacement .Maybe the statistic guys should have to spend time talking to people who get poor guns intead of passing it off.
 
I was working in a gun store 50 years ago and we did indeed send some guns back, including one Colt .38 DA revolver (I forget which model) which had NO hole in the barrel! I think that might be called a lapse of QC. It had the test target with it and all six shots were in the black. Figure that one out, Colt experts! Our return rate, though, was swelled by the SNS junk, like RG's, but overall I think quality guns had no greater or less return rate than today.

What we didn't have were recalls; there was no legal requirement for any such thing and no one did it in any industry, even the auto industry where it began later.

Nor was there any internet to spread the word on even minor glitches. Today, if a buyer finds a loose grip screw, twenty thousand posts will "expose" the "dangerous" pistol and claim that millions of people have been killed by flying grip screws!

IMHO, there are really fewer actual problems today, but production speed up has meant less of the old close fitting that once was a hallmark of a quality gun.

Jim
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top