Did the gun rags kill the Hi-Power?

I

Icopy

New member
The other day, I was going through my back issues G&A and Guns Magazine, when I noticed something. There was only one article about the Hi-Power! And that was when Browning introduced the 40 cal way back when. Do you think the hi-Power's real demise was that it was out of sight, out of mind? Case in point -- I was talking to a dealer who said he could never sell a Hi-Power. All people wanted were Glocks, Sigs, and 1911s. Why? Because that's all the gun rags ever wrote about. Somebody puts a fancy finish on a 1911 and there's an article about it. Glock slims their frame a bit, there's an article about it. On one hand, the gun rags have to keep us updated with new products. And the Hi-Power hasn't changed much over the past 10 years (you can't build on perfection). But on the other hand, I just read a "tribute" article to the 1911 in a recent mag. It's silly really. The Hi-Power has seen more service in more conflicts than the 1911. (If I'm wrong about this, feel free to correct me.) Personally, I didn't hear of the Hi-Power until they were no longer importing them. Then when I heard how bummed people were about it, I bought one. I have to say that my MKIII is the finest 9mm I ever shot. I'm not bashing the 1911, Glock or Sig. I own one of each. It's just a shame that many gun owners out there, especially the ones just getting started, might miss out on one of the finest firearm available. Let's hope that FN will begin importing the Hi-Power again.

[This message has been edited by Icopy (edited August 15, 2000).]
 
I don't know the reason . It might fasion. I had to go buy one to replace the one I sold years ago be cause it might be my last chance.. I love it. Anyone who has not shot should then you will buy one. I own glocks, a colt .45 lw commander, and a BHP.

patrick
 
You are correct Icopy it's all in marketing. All the gunsmiths push the 1911 because they make alot of money from them. Glock is famous for it's marketing. The gun mags have alot of people convinced that 4-5in at 25yds is "good combat accuracy"! Every gun tested passes that test. No gunmaker gets their feelings hurt. Much ad money.
 
Hello, Icopy! You may be on to something in your post. Consider also that for years, the foremost 9mm in this country was the HP, but 9mms were not popular so it's numbers were down compared to the forty-fives. Then came the police transition to 9mm, but that was to primarily non-Single-Actions like Beretta, SIG-Sauer, S&W, and Glock. Then the nine was thought to be lacking and the transition starts toward the forty. I reckon the 1911 is about the only SA autopistol that's held its own and flourished. Still, I prefer the HP in 9mm. Best.
 
All of the above AND the crime bill hurt double stack 9's except for with LEO's, and only a micro-number of LEO's can or will carry a single action. Glocks, etc. rule because of that and a lack of law enforcement marketing by Browning. Maybe a bit of .40 S&W mania contributed. That being said, if I could choose only one customized auto by one famous maker, they can all keep the Heinie, Baer, Wilson, or whatever .45 and give me a Novak Special Ops and I would forever be satisfied.

[This message has been edited by Jhp147 (edited August 15, 2000).]
 
I don't know if anyone thing is responsible for the decline in popularity of the HP. I'd say it was a combination: folks wanting DA/SA; the grip that simply doesn't fit everyone (the hammer chews my hand cruelly); the weight to size ratio; the magazine disconnect safety; the price; lack of model choices (no compact model available); lack of caliber choices (9mm for years and only recently in .40); the lack of widespread LEO use (folks tend to follow the lead of LEO aganecies), and the capacity (when 9mm were the rage the HP's capacity was less than other models).

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"Get yourself a Lorcin and lose that nickel plated sissy pistol."
 
Browning dropped the ball big time when they went to the firing pin block and didn't tell anyone. That newer BHP is one SAFE SA auto.

They should have had full page ads on that.
 
There have been a fair number of gun-zine articles about the P-35 in recent years...especially those worked over by Novak's (actually their P-35 work was done by Kurt Wickmann, who has hung out his own shingle www.kwgw.com).

I think that the reason the DA "wondernines" became more popular than the P-35 was that they offered the duffers the option of having the hammer down and still being ready for a quick shot (never mind that the DA pull made that first shot slower and less accurate...the duffers are slow and inaccurate anyway).

Rosco
 
I think the biggest factor is SA vs. DA vs. DAO. DAO is the latest "craze". DA is the established norm. SA is "obsolete" except for the obvious 1911.

Proof that fashion is not always based on function. The crisp, consistent trigger pull of a nice SA is certainly a benefit to an accurate first shot (arguably the most important shot) and an accurate follow-up.

When American Rifleman did a (very nice) article on the BHP as a true classic, they said something like "the Hi-Power is a single-action auto in an increasingly double-action or DAO world..."

Reporting the trend or fueling it?

BTW, Tecolote, replace that spur hammer with the rounded hammer and that bite will go away for good.
 
Say what you will, but IMHO as a LEO Firearms Instructor, the P-35 has been falling from favor in the past decade, because it is out classed by the newer weapons. Why would anyone choose a P-35 when they can get a Glock 17/19. You don't have to deactivate a mickey mouse magazine safety, replace cheesy sights, or replace a fumble prone tiny safety, do an action job or polish the feed ramp and throat the barrel and etc. With the Glock just take it out of the box and go to war. I own a P-35 and carried a privately own one in Nam and If the Glock 17 had been available back then, I would have chose it over the P-35. I still own a Nazi wartime P-35 and it's a nice old gun and thats about it.

7th

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SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.

[This message has been edited by 7th Fleet (edited August 17, 2000).]
 
Some of it is (alleged) 'progress',some of it is Browning's failure to promote it, and some of it is general shooter ignorance. I once brought a Novak BHP with Spegel's wood grips into the office. A newbie looked it over and said, 'What's so special about this?'. That was almost ten years ago. He's still a mental newbie.

They are nice guns and perfectly adequate. The Glock 17 is 'better' in some ways, but since I haven't gotten one yet I can get along with the BHP and paid-for high cap magazines.

Gun rags? Do people still read that stuff?

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Does this mean that the Browning HiPower is no longer available? I could've sworn I saw a brand new one at a local gun shop about a month ago. It was in .40 S&W. Too bad if so. It's a great gun.
 
cocked and locked bias/ignorance

the successful implementation of polymer/plastic framed wonder nines in the mid 80s

very successful launching of the .40

Browning/FN very slow to retool to a .40 HP

other reasons as noted above...

still, all in all, the HP and 1911 are the 2 pistols that fit me best and I shoot the best with.
 
I think Browning's lack of marketing/advertising killed the Hi-Power. I wonder how many people knew that FBI HRT was using Novak modified Hi-Powers until they recently switched to Para Ordinance. Browning could have gotten some real milage out of that one like Springfield Armory is doing with their 1911 pistols (FBI SWAT members). When was the last time anybody saw an ad for Browning Hi-Power? In today's market you can't sell without marketing and advertising. Its too bad because I think H-Powers are one of the greatest pistols of this century and still a very viable pistol for sports or self-defense.
 
Dave R.

"...replace that spur hammer with the rounded hammer and that bite will go away for good."

It doesn't work for me, I get pinched by both. I've had several Hi-Powers and they were good guns, but too heavy for their capacity, and difficult to detail strip/work on (compared to the 1911 and especially newer designs).

I'll take my Glock 34 instead. It is, simply, The Best Pistol Ever Built. :D

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Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!
 
7th Fleet --

You're right about the older Hi-Power failing in some categories. However, starting with the MKIII in the early 90's, the Hi-Power has refined itself into near perfection. Out of the box, mine had superb hi-viz sights, a good, Glock-like trigger, superior ergonomics, extended ambi-safeties, and throated chamber. I'd say that my MKIII is equal to my G17 from the same year in terms of reliability and trigger feel. However, the G17 wins out on mag capacity (17+1 vs 13+1). But the MKIII has much better grip feel. If FN starts reimporting them, you should get your hands on a new one.
 
It's more than Browning's marketing in this country. It's also Browning's service.

I had two Browning's (Micro Buck Mark and BDM) before I bought a MkII FN High Power) and I have to say that Browning's response (or lack of) to my service requests on those two guns was decidedly underwhelming.

Skorzeny: "Sir, the safety on the BDM will NOT engage with my thumb. It takes an inordinate amount of force with both hands!"

Browning Rep: "You sure you aren't pressing it too weak?"

Skorzeny: "Sir, I assure you that I am putting a considerable amount of force on it and I am a fairly big, strong guy."

Browning Rep: "Well, there could be something wrong, though I doubt it."

Skorzeny: "Can I send it in for service?"

Browining Rep: "I guess. Check your manual for the shipping address." Click.

Skorzeny: "Hello? Hello?"

My impression is that whether marketing or service, Browning is not a very well-run or managed company. No amount of high quality work at FN in Belgium is going to override that factor.

Sure, Springfield is deriving some mileage from the FBI contract, but its customer services really speaks for itself.

Skorzeny

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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
 
The Hi-Power is/was a pistol manufactured and imported by what is primarily a sporting long gun company, whereas pistols were the only products of the companies that took over the police and civilian self defense market in the early 90s (Glock, SIG, Beretta, S&W). Browning, to my knowledge at least, did not market any of its products to law enforcement and put little to no effort into marketing this pistol to civilians, so it died on the vine except among us serious shooters.

FN still lists the HP among its law enforcement products (http://www.fnmfg.com/lawenf/hpsa/hpsamain.htm). I wonder what it would take for a civilian to get a hold of one? All FN would have to do is sell it with Clinton-approved 10 round mags.

It will be interesting to see if another company begins importing the genuine FN Hi-Power if or when Browning drops it. It would fit nicely in the Kimber or Springfield Armory catalogs.

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Alfadog
NRA Life Member

"DO NOT TAKE COUNSEL OF YOUR FEARS."
--G. S. Patton, Jr., Lt. Gen., USA, 6 March 1944

[This message has been edited by Alfadog (edited August 16, 2000).]
 
ICopy and 9X19, small clarification in the Hp vs. Glock comparison...

17rd mags for HPs are readily available and inexpensive. I bought 2 last week. They're available for $29 on the 'net. So capacity is equal.

Trigger pull is a matter of preference, but I was able to compare my HP (clone) with my Bro-in-law's Glock .40 (FBI issue) head to head recently, and I much prefer the SA pull of my HP. Crisp break.

Just wanted you to be aware that the HP is maybe a bit more competitive than you thought.
 
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