Did I miss something?

L

Longhorn1986

New member
I am watching Guns and Ammo TV and they are going on about the "stout" recoil of 9mm +p. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!?! It was only a few years back that .357 mag & .45 ACP were the standard defensive rounds. I'm not disparaging the 9mm by any means, but has it gotten so to the point where even the nine is too much for the average shooter to handle these days?? I know I'm a dinosaur. Among my EDCs is a 2 1/4 inch Model 60 loaded with 125 gr .357. I've been shooting it for 20+ years and am comfortable with it. At this rate, in another generation, Red Rider BB guns will come with a muzzle brake!!!

Sorry to rant, but good grief! It's a real live firearm! It's supposed to recoil, unlike the ones in video games!
 
I mean... A compact or sub-compact 9 with +p ammo definitely has a little bite. But nothing compared to my S&W 642 with +p or 2.25" Ruger SP101 with full .357 mag ammo.

But a full sized 9mm is about the most pleasant shooting pistol one can get for the performance.
 
The concealment market is booming and encouraging tiny designs. I got my daughter a Sig P938 and that tiny thing with a hot 9mm has some snap.
 
Most of what I hear and read about recoil lately seems to be in the context of faster follow-up shots. So when they talk about 9 mm +P rounds being "snappy" or "stout", they probably don't mean to imply that these rounds are uncomfortable to shoot. They are just more difficult (or take more practice) to get back on target quickly.
 
The better 9mm +P loads will push a 124 gr bullet out the muzzle at 1300 fps from a 5" barrel, 1200-1250 from 4" barrels. While 357 mag advertises about 1500 fps, real world speeds are usually closer to 1200-1300 fps, often slower.

Your 2 1/4" barrel probably isn't making 1100 fps with most common loads. You might be making 1200-1300 fps with some of the hotter loads.

A 124 gr bullet leaving a lightweight plastic framed compact pistol at 1200 fps is going to have similar recoil to a mid sized, steel framed 357 mag. Maybe more.
 
9 mm +P is just parting good folks and their money. Nice gimmick to sell ammo. I doubt anyone can tell the difference being shot with standard 9 mm or 9 mm +P, or 9 mm+P+
 
Last time I shot an LCP with standard ball ammo, it was a real kicker. Not real pleasant to shoot and it took quite a bit of practice time to get me to keep it on target. Very short range pistol, too.

Same ammo in the 92 was a breeze to shoot.

Ergo, it's not the ammo, it's the pistol and shooter.

--Wag--
 
I'm a little confused by the same ammo being used in an LCP and a Beretta 92, Wag.

But to the original point, there are some odd opinions out there these days, mostly arising from a lack of real or broad experience.
 
Many EDC guns weigh less than half of what the average gun did 15 years ago. Snappy is more than relative...it's a reality. That's why the defense loads are so popular. Scaled back loads that are easier to handle. But the worst thing about the light carry guns is that they become uncomfortable to practice with for any length of time.
A bad scenario when it hurts to practice with a weapon that just may have to save your life.
 
I had a Ruger SP101 .357 magnum 2.5" and when firing Hornady 125 grain XTP factory loads at 1500 FPS, it stung a little. I find my Ruger 7.5" Redhawk .45 Colt firing 325 grain cast lead at 1200 FPS more pleasant. It depends on the gun and the grip.
 
TailGator said:
I'm a little confused by the same ammo being used in an LCP and a Beretta 92, Wag.

But to the original point, there are some odd opinions out there these days, mostly arising from a lack of real or broad experience.
Click to expand...
My mistake. LC9.

--Wag--
 
I always think of recoil in the context of follow-up shots, so it's the character of the recoil, as well as the amount that interests me.
I generally prefer "snappy", as that allows the gun to get back on target quicker; "soft is slow".

I'd shot some fairly stout .45 ACP rounds (230gr at 880fps) through a revolver a couple of weekends in a row, and upon returning to a competition load (230 at 740) in a 1911, was surprised by the relative lack of felt recoil, which I'm sure was due to both the reduced load, and the recoil characteristics of auto vs. revolver.

Last year, I shot mostly a compact, 16oz 9mm, 1000+ rounds, and while I'd read some reports on the net of the gun "nearly jumping from my hand" in recoil, it seems docile to me. :confused:
 
"Stout recoil" and 9MM, don't seem to belong in the same sentence. I was issued 9MM +P for years, and have shot a fair amount of 9MM +p, and +P+, in a variety of pistols and revolvers. Recoil is greater than any +P 38 Spcl. I've used. But "stout", not so much IMHO. The hottest 9MM +P+ I've chronographed has less recoil than common, standard pressure, .45 ACP 230 grain ball....


OK, I take it back, sorta. Years ago, I shot a magazine of 9MM +P in a little Detonics "Pocket 9", with unlocked, blow back, action. Nasty!
 
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The 357 Magnum has quite a performance improvement over the 9mm, even +P versions.

Here are a few actual chronographed speeds,

357 magnum

Remington 125 SJHP.
4” 686 = 1465 fps
2” Colt Magnum Carry = 1255 fps


Buffalo Bore 125 GDHP
4” 686 = 1510 fps
2” Colt Magnum Carry = 1328 fps
2.5” S&W M66 = 1339 fps



9mm Luger

Double Tap 115 +P
4” Glock = 1305 fps

Double Tap 124 +P
4” Glock = 1257 fps

Double Tap 124 +P
4” Glock = 1117 fps

Winchester 127 +P+
4.5” CZ SP-01 4.5” = 1205 fps

Federal HST +P
Walther P99 4” = 1208 fps

Remington 124 GS +P
3.6” S&W M&P = 1138 fps

Federal 115 9BPLE +P+
3.6” S&W M&P = 1285 fps
 
If you drove the bullets another 100 or 200fps faster, would you consider that an improvement?

I don't think you get a proportional improvement in results, when you start down the road of improved external ballistics.

I wouldn't trade the docile handling of standard pressure loads for +P, so driving the bullets even faster via a different vehicle wouldn't be very appealing, either.

It's like hunting with a .308, or a .30-06, or a .300 Winchester Magnum; maybe just going to a .32" bullet makes more sense than adding more velocity?
 
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