Did I just buy a case of unsusable 30-06 soft points?

O

Oleg Volk

Staff Alumnus
Having found little info on Barnaul 30-06, I bought a case based on my good experience with 9x18 and 7.62x39 of that brand. Got the ammo, it looked good, tried to load it into enblocks and something felt wrong. Put it into my Garand, it did seat but required more pressure than Talon M2 (which tends to be less than perfect in itself - dings and so on). The rounds would strip and chamber, again with a stronger tap on the charging handle. The sides of the clips are spreading further for the Russian ammo...wonder if that would ruin them in the long run?

http://www.olegvolk.net/newphotos/lifesavers/3006enblock.jpg
http://www.olegvolk.net/newphotos/lifesavers/3006shape.jpg
http://www.olegvolk.net/newphotos/lifesavers/enblockangles.jpg
http://www.olegvolk.net/newphotos/lifesavers/enblockside.jpg

Looking at the cartridges, I notice they are shaped straighter than US 30-06 and so sit differently in the enblock. They are also a little shorter and have a funny shape just forward of the extraction groove. Looks like an effort at reinforcing the steel casing.

Based on this, would anyone venture to guess if that ammo is usable/safe in a Garand if even on a purely mechanical level (because of the shape difference)? FWIW, Remington CoreLokt soft points fit and fired just fine. I've got about $140 tied up in that lot of 500...but if it isn't a good fit for my Garand, maybe I can give it to someone with a bolt action.

Oleg
 
I will just say...posts like this, forbid me from EVER buying Wolfe or Barnaul for anything I own. I for one don't want nor need and problems....Just MHO and the rest know way better....some weapons like and and some don't. Mine shall never get the chance to give me grief.

Karsten
 
I ran tests on Makarov ammo and found that Brnaul JHP was the best load for it. Speer Blazer JHP came in second, S&B ball third. TCW, various other Russian ball was OK for practice. CorBon I rated as too unsafe to use, ditto for similarly designed Hornady. That ranking was completely opposite of my expectations.

Since then, I decided to try different ammo to see how it would perform. I shouldn't have bought so much at once, though...maybe the next range trip would prove this ammo at least usable for practice.
 
I'd be real careful. It's definately not worth blowing up your Garand or getting hurt over $150. Can you get a hold of the manufacturer and ask them what's up? Other than that, I would probably try to sell it at a gun show if I decided not to shoot it. SOmeone with a bolt or lever gun will probably do fine with it.
 
Maybe it's just my eyes playing tricks on me, but it also appears that the bullets themselves are bigger than .308". Perhaps they're .311"? Break out the calipers...

That ring indent around the bottom looks like a poor attempt to remove the reinforcement from a magnum cartridge.

Also, the extraction groove looks thinner than the 30-06 groove.

If I could venture a guess, I'd say those casings are turned down from a magnum rifle casing that used to have a wider base.


Mechanically, I think the Garand could handle it either way; but I'd only test that theory in life-threatening battle situations. Unless you're writing us from a flaming building in Jerusalum, I'd try to swap it.



EDIT- Sorry for the next post, I just woke up...
 
Maybe it's just my eyes playing tricks on me, but it also appears that the bullets themselves are bigger than .308". Perhaps they're .311"? Break out the calipers...

That ring indent around the bottom looks like a poor attempt to remove the reinforcement from a magnum cartridge.

Also, the extraction groove looks thinner than the 30-06 groove.

If I could venture a guess, I'd say those casings are turned down from a magnum rifle casing that used to have a wider base.


Mechanically, I think the Garand could handle it either way; but I'd only test that theory in life-threatening battle situations. Unless you're writing us from a flaming building in Jerusalum, I'd try to swap it.
 
Either send it back and write it down as knowledge gained; or bury it in the back yard.

Junk is junk, and it ain't worth the possibility of messing up a good rifle.

Another example: I got some gunshow reloads of .223 55-grain SPs. Shoots great; very good groups. But dangfino what kind of powder the guy used; glad I'm shooting it in a bolt-action and not my Bushmaster. It's absolutely the dirtiest stuff I've ever seen! 10 or 20 rounds, and it's a many-patch cleaning job! I hate to think what the gas port and piston area of a semi-auto would look like.

Some money ain't worth savin'.

$0.02, Art
 
Oleg:

I'd suggest having someone with an '06 case gauge check these for fit, as well as mic'ing the bullets.

Also, do you know of anyone nearby with a sturdy bolt-action '06 to try chamberiung and firing a few? It would be *really* nice if they had a chronograph, too...

JB
 
I don't see how you could get them to chamber if they are as far out of spec as they appear to be. I would mike the cases at every point, and mike the bullets as well. There is definitely something wrong somewhere.

Jim
 
Could it be 8mm Mauser? Some folks in times past found to their chagrin that they couldn't be safely fired in a 30'06.
 
Oleg,

I'd check the case dimensions with a caliper, see if they match up, also check the bullet diameter. I wouldn't mess with trying to chamber any of them in your Garand.
If they're steel cased, I've seen some steel cases that have a laquer finish on them, and that might be what's causing them to be a little big.


I think I'd end up trashing the ammo, or sending it back if I could!

M@
 
Could it be an extra heavy coat of lacquer? I have some Russian 7.62X39 that works great in my SKS, but that lacquer coating starts to build up and get gummy after about 50 rounds.
 
Frankly, I'd get rid of it. During WW-2, we made some rounds from steel cases, mostly .45 ACP. They saw very little use overseas and they would break the extractors on 1911's and other .45 Cal. weapons.
While those loads may work fairly well in a bolt action, if bullet and other dimensions should turn out to be compatible, I certainly would never use them in any semi-automatic firearm of any kind. With a bolt action, you can control how much pull you might need to extract the round to ease strain on the extractor. Can't do that with a semi, sorry to say.
I go along with the others. See if you can return the stuff and get your money back.
Paul B.
 
Not an 8MM Mauser,
View

The short fat guy on the right is the 8MM. I never have figured out if the case is supposed to be spec.before or after the coatings are applied to these cases but what your are showing is looks pretty strange! I wouldn't even trade that to my Bro In Law for a Dead Frog!
 
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After looking at the pics...notice the outward cant of the rounds.
Tha 30-06 point inward where as the other point outwards....
Sorry I am of no help, I don't buy Wolfe.

Karsten
 
Tapping a Garand

I was told by an old match shooter that if you have to tap the charging handle of a Garand, it is either too dirty, too dry, or bad ammo.

I only use real USGI Lake City in my garands, and have never, ever had to tap the handle. Maybe it is true.
 
The need to tap the M1 op rod handle is based on a number of factors, but the ammo is not usually one of them (provided the ammo is correct, which is a question here). Ideally, an M1 will close on its own when everything is set up correctly. In reality, many will not and a light tap is required.

Jim
 
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