Did I do the right thing? Or should I have used force?

R

razorburn

New member
Driving home alone tonight, got into a confrontation. A car was swerving and driving slowly, probably a drunk driver at this time on a saturday night. I pass it quickly to try to minimize the amount of time I'd be near the car for the rest of the night. The car was very aggravated by this and started to follow me. As I drove towards home, they passed by me and stopped in front of me, trying to block me in the road between the median and the curb. Then 3 men got out and one opened my car door and threw a punch at me and another kicked my car. I reversed, pulled into a roundabout and drove along a main road and called the cops. They followed for a while but then turned off. I took a long way about home.

I had my carry piece with me. While this was happening, I actually spent time thinking about what I'd have to go through in terms of legal process if I shot them.. Having to testify before a jury, possibly jail... Now looking back, I feel like I kind of wimped out about it. I think I should've at least brandished and ordered them to stop when I saw them getting out of their car. I feel bad about my situational awareness. What would you have done?
 
sounds like a road rage incident but I guess that is an obvious assessment. I am glad you weren't hurt, but I am sure you were rattled. Yeah, that is more than an incident - that was an assault. Is there anything else you haven't told us yet? I am not doubting you; I just am trying to get a full, better understanding of this incident. How old approximately were these guys or you? Have you ever seen them before? Did you do anything to them when you passed them(any kind of communication or anything at all)?

You made it out ok, you didn't escalate the incident, you were able to drive away, and you showed caution by 'taking the long way home'.

The above mentioned are credible to you. I don't think I could've let 3 guys approach me and open my car door, But I wasn't there & I haven't had that happen to me before.

About 7 years ago before I was CCW, I did have two guys in a truck want me to pull over so we could fight because I passed them on the way to work. I declined and kept driving. That one and only road rage incident of mine taught me a lesson, as I was rather rude when I passed them. I didn't use any hand gestures, but I pointed at my head as to telling the guy to "use his noggin" as he cut me off and someone else on a major roadway. I was wrong to escalate the incident. That being said, this dude was a major meathead and I think he needed some anger managment courses as well.:cool:
 
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Well let's just say that if you chose to use deadly force you have to conceder the fact that there are 3 of them and one of you. Laws are different State to State in FL your car falls under the Castle Doctrine but you may need a witness. On the other hand 3 dead guys cant testify against you. But if you have the shell cases and no one is around well .... your call.
As for me if 3 idiots come out of a car and head my way, I put it in reverse and get out of there, if they open my door I shoot. Deadly force is the last option always, except in your home!

Mace
 
These guys were mid 20s to 30, and I am also in my mid 20's. I didn't expect them to come out attacking, so I didn't reverse out of there immediately. I have never had to fight in my adult life. I am rattled and just feel badly about it.. like I wimped out of standing up for myself?
 
razorburn

what happened when you passed them? did you make eye contact and they took it the wrong way, did you mouth something, or did you do nothing and not even look their way when you passed? either way you should be able to move on from this. maybe you would've known if it was more serious and instinct would've had you pulled then?
 
Then 3 men got out and one opened my car door and threw a punch at me and another kicked my car. I reversed, pulled into a roundabout and drove along a main road and called the cops. They followed for a while but then turned off. I took a long way about home.
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You were able to put your car in reverse and drive off when you were under attack as they opened your car door and threw a punch.

Wouldn't it have been easier to back on out before the attack began?
 
Razorburn,

You're gonna get punched in your life a few times, sometimes you'll just have to take it. I for myself have been in some fights, in which I had to take some punches without other choice. Me and my friend got surrounded by 8 guys at a moment, which were trying to pick a fight. We both practiced martial arts, which gave us the disadvantages that if we fought back, the legal consequences would be much more severe (judges seem to think that martial artists are some kind of super-ninja that can subdue enemies without physical harming them :confused: ). So we didn't fight back as long as nobody seemed to be a real threat. After punching me a few times and noticing they wouldn't get their fight, they left off.

What I'm trying to say with all this: not everyone who uses violence against you is a threat, as long as you know that you can master the situation if needed, it sometimes is worth the pain not to escalate things and regretting the legal consequences.

About this particular case: if a car with 3 men would try to stop me at night, I'd drive away as fast as possible. If someone opened my cardoor and I had a firearm, I'd have pointed it at him and would ask him to leave. (if I were in the US that is) Shot him if he moved too fast after that.

EDIT: I'm always wary of multiple men sitting in a car, it's not that natural.
 
I am rattled and just feel badly about it.. like I wimped out of standing up for myself?
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When you carry a firearm, retreating or "wimping out" as you describe it becomes more of a necessity. If you do end up using lethal force, nothing will muddy up your defense case much more than hopping out and getting into a wild fist throwing melee with 3 drunks before one of them pulls a weapon on you (perhaps without any witnesses).

You were able to put your car in reverse and drive off when you were under attack as they opened your car door and threw a punch.
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If any error was made on your part, I'd say this was it. Not a biggie in this particular case though, I suppose you have nothing more than a dent in your car to show for it. I'm not Monday night quarter backing you or anything, I wasn't there and I know you were in a stressful situation, and you admit you had a lapse in SA (we all do at times, we are human). Something to consider and learn from perhaps.

I think I should've at least brandished and ordered them to stop when I saw them getting out of their car.
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Unless you were completely boxed in by other cars, this would be a tough sell if things wound up in court. You are already sitting in the perfect escape capsule. Even if this would fall under a particular states "stand your ground" law, you gotta ask your self if it is wise to get into a scrap with three idiots who might well be armed when you can just slip away.

I wouldn't call that wimping out. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor as they say.
 
Hey RB,
Nobody died, you made it home safe. I don't see anything 'wimpy' in your actions. Sometimes it takes more stones to keep the peace than to make a peace.
JA
 
You did okay.

Despite what others have said already, in this situation I would NOT have shot the guy who opened the car door and attempted (successfully) to throw a punch at you. Why? Because it doesn't warrant the use of deadly force.

Had you simply locked your doors, there would have been no imminent danger...hence, no reason to use deadly force. You were, for all intents and purposes, safely ensconced in your vehicle. Don't forget that your car is a refuge ... and weapon.

Unless dragged from the car and physically attacked by the three drunks, you would likely have been in a heap of trouble if you had shot the guy who threw the punch.

Moral of the story, lock your car doors if a stranger approaches. This simple precaution just might save you from having to shoot someone.
 
Whatever you do, don't second guess yourself.

You came out alive and uninjured. What more do you want?

That said, however, I really think you got super lucky. Next time, you may want to pull the firearm and defend yourself because it should be considered a rare occasion that three drunk guys won't take you to task for whatever unknown reasons.

Count your lucky stars.

--Wag--
 
being outnumbered would give me the feeling of imminent death. heard too many stories of guys getting their heads kicked in by a group of thugs. How do you know they didnt have lethal weapons ready to pull out at any time. One crazed drunks chance of having a deadly weapon may be small or half an half. 3 crazed mens chances of at least one being armed with some kind of deadly weapon is almost certian. If they committed a crime and beat the snot out of you and you saw their faces, they could kill you so there wouldn't be witness to identify them.

Also your carry weapon wasnt your only weapon. A motorized vehicle is a powerful weapon as well. Which in actuality was used to an extent by both sides. Perhaps next time don't let a car stop you. Lock the doors and keep mobile, even if you can only drive 5 miles an hour.
 
You got away, un-harmed so you did the right thing.

The fact that you carry gave you another option, should you have needed it, but fortunately it was unnecessary. Trust me when I say you are happier and better off this morning having not shot someone.
 
Trust me when I say you are happier and better off this morning having not shot someone.

+1

That is very well said. You didn't wimp out. You came out unharmed with lessons learned, no bodies at your feet and not on the opposite end of a Casey Anthony-type jury.
 
From what I can tell about your story, there was absolutely NO 'wimpiness' involved. You did the right thing in getting away unscathed, contacting the police, and taking the long way home. All of those are smart, smart decisions, so don't second guess yourself!

When caught in an encounter with an aggressor, people always want to WIN that encounter. And I agree: Winning is good. We always want to win. We always need to win. But sometimes "win" is defined as "I killed that bastich" or "I made that sumbich back off." And that's not necessarily a win. A win is when you go home safely, with your entire life intact. Nothing else counts as a win. Spending the next two years in & out of the courthouse, defending what you did and why you did it, would not be a win. At most, it would be a dreary ending to a crappy situation that you handled as best you could.

You won.

pax
 
You broke contact, which was the right thing to do. A lot depends on your state laws, some left leaning states would require you to flee even if it means abandoning your car. States with a castle doctrine like Tx or Fl allow you to defend your life and property. I imagine I would have had my CCW out and chambered a round as soon as the potential for a confrontation occurred (I usually keep it with an empty chamber and in the glove box unless I feel a threat).

It sounds to me like you would have been justified in using lethal force; morally even if not legally. If they had been better organized and one of them was blocking your car you would have been confronted with the choice of hitting him with your car or shooting them. A shooting would have been a lot easier to explain and prove than hitting him with your car.

I've told everyone I've ever talked to about buying a gun for self defense that you shouldn't own one if you're not prepared to take someone's life with it. That is doubly true if you plan to carry it. You can hope that brandishing it is enough to stop an attack, but not being prepared to pull the trigger is the best way to have your gun taken from you and turned against you.
 
"You got away, un-harmed so you did the right thing"

+1 albeit conditionally. Sometimes you can do the exact wrong thing and get lucky other times you can take the text book perfect action and get screwed. You are the best witness to critique your performance. From what I read, you did fine; your alive, your not in jail and your not getting sued.
Don't beat yourself up. Take some time and give this incident a objective critique. I think you may find that there were some things you could / should have done differently. Perhaps (Perhaps; I wasn't there) locking your doors, exiting the scene sooner etc. I don't think blasting away with your firearm would have given this incident a happier ending.
 
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