Detroit News poll on grabbing Elian

O

Oatka

New member
The voice of the sheeple.
http://www.detnews.com/

Snatching Elian
Does the end justify the means in the government's seizure of Elian from the home of his Miami relatives?

Yes 60%
No 39%

In the discussion I logged:

"INS - American for Einsatzgruppen. Or if you prefer symbolism, today is Lenin's birthday. Either way, with 60% of those polled (I won't call them Americans) saying the ends justifies the means, this Republic is done for."

Update - this is getting really sad - Another poll, another baa baa winning: http://www.herald.com/content/today/poll.htm

Do you think the goverment's raid on the Gonzalez's Miami home was handled properly?
Yes 64%
No 35%

Can you say "Heil" children?



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The New World Order has a Third Reich odor.


[This message has been edited by Oatka (edited April 22, 2000).]
 
My email Response to the Detroit News article a few minutes ago:
The Clintonista's involking of "the rule of law" as the reason for their position on Elian Gonzales is a joke. Since when has the rule of law meant anything to this "regime". No, this morning's para-military operation was only about one Socialist regime recognizing the right of another to it's human property and exercising its power to effect a return of that property. Will the American people ever wake up to SEE what is really going on with their Federal government?
 
To all of you who are crying about the way the US government handled this issue: I say about damn time. The child was an illegal alien in our country--that is it plain and simple! The INS officials are constantly fighting this battle on the borders. Nobody cries or whimpers when illegal drug traffikers are busted or vanloads of illegal aliens are caught attempting to gain access to our country. How is this different!! What would you like for us to do next? Allow the kid to stay? Well then we would be hypocrites and have to open our borders to everyone. Where do we draw the line!? The kid belongs to his father...not the uncle! The majority of you whining have probably never served proudly in our countries armed forces. We have died protecting our borders so whiners like you can rant and rave with the freedom of speech you have not earned! We, the soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines have fought to give you this! You are just taking it all for granted. If you don't like this WONDERFUL country we live in, then pack your bags and GET THE HELL OUT! Go to Cuba, Russia or any place at all outside our borders. In about a week you will be crying to be let back in! You can only take advantage of the things you have. Once they are gone, you are S.O.L.! In my opinion, it is more of a shame how long was spent negotiating in the first place. Elian was basically being held hostage. Should have happened sooner!
 
BMiracle, I don't think the major concern is with whether Elian should stay here or not (I personally think he should go with his father) but the horrible way the government treated the family.

These people were not violent, but the agents battered down their door, and ran through the house, pointing submachine guns at unarmed people, yelling things like "GET OUT OF THE WAY OR I'LL SHOOT!!!"

And they ripped the crying kid out of the hands of his relatives at gunpoint. Is that not an grotesque overuse of force?
 
But how long had the government tried to talk to the family and try to persuade them to give the child back peacefully? Maybe the problem is with the family. I am currently in the Air Force and have been deployed. The US government tried to talk the Iraqis into leaving Kuwait peacefully. Did they? NO! We kicked their butts in response. I realize the similarities are not quite good here, but I feel the issue is not the way the government handled it...it is the way the family handled. Did they have to push back the original deadline? No. But they did. And the family slapped the face of the country they live in.
 
To let everyone know, as of 6:42 pm centrral time, the poll is 49% for the feds and 50% against.

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For God so loved the world that he gave his onlly begoten Son...
 
BMiracle, there are over 6 million illegal aliens in this country. Why is the U.S. Government making such a big deal about one kid? Why is the Clinton Administration doing the bidding of the Castro dictatorship?

Your post rambles on about "whiners (us) who rant and rave with the freedom of speech YOU HAVE NOT EARNED". What the hell are you talking about? The constitution of the U.S. grants me freedom of speech, not you, you idiot! How are people supposed to earn their Constitutional rights? Just because you serve in the armed forces does not confer upon you "superior rights". Conversely YOU cannot deny me my constitutional rights. Do I need to remind you that obviously YOU have not died for my rights, others have. You haven't done jack sh!t for me, so don't tell me what I can and cannot say.
 
BM, I served in the Air Force. Proudly during time of war when others fled the country. I sweated through basic at Lackland AFB as you probably did also.

I did not serve to promote Nazism. Is that what you're serving for?
 
Chill guys...don't get so emotional that you do something we all will regret, ok?

Let's remember that everyone has the right to speak, even Nazis, as upheld by the Sup Court....despite the fact that some folks feel they are significant enough to re-write the Constitution
wink.gif


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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
I agree with DC, even if his handle reminds me a certain city for which I have no love lost. Perhaps you guys need to take some deep breaths or use some relaxation techniques before posting.
 
Also note, that some particular folks are so "divinely inspired" or perceive themselves so, that they post the exact same statement on multiple threads.

Gee, I think I see the new generation of JBT...err, ahhh, oh yeah...I meant Federal LEO...after enlistment is over and a new job is needed.


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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
OK, BMiracle, I'll take you up on that ... count me as one who 'cries' when we bust illegal aliens and drug smugglers. I think the 'Drug War' sucks, and is helping to destroy our Bill of Rights. I think our immigration policy is an absurd excuse for the deficiencies in our welfare and other social 'service' systems. 'Illegal' aliens are not the problem from my perspective.

And, my friend, it would appear to me that right now you are exactly the kind of fellow that Bill Clinton needs .... while he tells us all how violence and guns are bad.

I appreciate your service to our country, but I would respectfully ask you to read and consider carefully the Constitution you swore to protect and defend. As a matter of fact, the GOA has a book called 'The Proper Role of Law Enforcement' by Sherriff Richard Mack - you might find this to be an interesting perspective considering your service to our nation.

Regards from AZ
 
BMiracle:

I go to a lot of gun shows. There are the usual gun/ammo/holster/survival gear booths.

And it always seems there's that one booth where a few rednecks are passing out their propaganda leaflets about "how them-there illegal imgrunts is rurnin' our country".

Have you done your part manning one of those booths? I'm sure your efforts would be appreciated.

Administrators please note: I do not subscribe to the "Rodney King Approach to Social Order", I.E. "c..cc..can't we all j..j..just get along..?"

No, we can't. Kick me off if you want. I know racism and xenophobia when I see them.

BTW, BMiracle has posted this inane anti-constitutional crap on several threads, VERBATIM!

[This message has been edited by weegee (edited April 23, 2000).]
 
While I'm a bit loath to agree with how it was done, I think I understand just WHY 160 heavily armed INS agents were in the raid to snatch Elian...

1. The family has been MOST uncooperative, acting, quite literally, in much the same way as Castro (don't you DARE take OUR property!). Who's to say that the home wasn't an armed camp of supporters?

2. Going in in the early morning also makes sense -- you only have to watch the news to see the kinds of crowds that have been regularly gathered in those neighborhoods. A mid-day extraction would have caused a riot.

3. Given that at least two police officers were assaulted, at least one seriously, by crowds this afternoon, see point 2.

4. "Give us the boy or we'll shoot!" Well, that's the family's version. Last I heard, the gov't isn't saying much, only confirming that armed hostage extraction units were used. Of course the family's going to put as sensational a spin on this as they can. They feel the gov't dissed them.

5. The family did NOT have legal, permanent custody. They only had caretakership, yet were refusing to relinquish that responsibility. The father, as the surviving parent and unless proven otherwise, has primacy in custodial issues, whether or not he is an American citizen. That's been government policy for a LONG time, not just under the Clinton administration. This is by no means the first child reunited with a parent under similar circumstances. Except in similar cases, those children had not become mystical icons.

My take on this is that the family brought this down on themselves. There is a court order barring the child's removal from the United States until the primary immigration question is settled, and yet they still refused to allow the boy's reunion with his father.

Why? Because they were losing their icon. My belief is that he was less a relative to them then he was a icon for smearing the Catro regime.
 
Darn, can you believe it? The Gonzalez family were able to distinguish between tyranny and freedom. Wow, what a rarity these days.

Apparently even for some non-Cuban-Americans.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BMiracle:
To all of you who are crying about the way the US government handled this issue: I say about damn time. The child was an illegal alien in our country--that is it plain and simple![/quote]

Excuse me, perhaps I'm being a bit naive here, but I thought that the Court of Appeals in Atlanta had ruled that he must stay in the U.S. until his hearing....

I also thought we had a 4th Amendment which said something about people have the right not to have government agents break in to their homes and take things without at least a court order....

Let's see, ah yes, here it is:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Amendment IV:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
[/quote]

Do I think Elian should have been returned to his dad? I'm not sure yet--I've seen so much conflicting information about the whole thing that I just don't know.

But this was illegal search-and-seizure at best, kidnapping at worst. It is both illegal and unconstitutional for this to have happened without a warrant. But then again, I'm not surprised. Clinton still thinks he's above the law.


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"There's not much comfort in the fact that crime is down 6 percent. So instead of 100 criminals targeting you, now there are only 94. Whoop-dee-doo." -- Paxton Quigley


[This message has been edited by papercut (edited April 23, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Patrick Graham:
Oatka
I'm one of those 60%.
Are you calling me un-american?

[/quote]

Damn Straight.

"Does the end justify the means in the government's seizure of Elian from the home of his Miami relatives?"

What would you call someone who answers
"Yes" to that question?

Let's go to email if you're offended, nobody but us is interested.



------------------
The New World Order has a Third Reich odor.
 
As long as the cuban americans avoided father bashing and trampling on father's rights I supported them in their quest. The instant they start trashing the father and denying him the right to raise his child then I stopped supporting them.
The biggest mistake the cuban americans made in this was ignoring (or not caring about) the fact that america itself was previously split up politically by an atrocious divorce rate and anti-father custody arrangments. Right off the bat the anti-father retoric cost them the support of more than half the white and black males in the US.
 
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