Deringer vs. .22 auto

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Snickersnee

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In terms of straight-up stopping power, are the two larger caliber slugs from a .45 or .38 derringer(I'm looking at Bond Arms Texas Defender) more formidable than the 5 .22's from a Berreta Model 21 Bobcat?

Also, if anyone has fired a Texas Defender in either of these cailbers, how does it shoot?

My ability with a pistol is very limited, and all the likely trouble I'll get myself into will be pretty much face-to-face, so it needn't have any degree of accuracy beyond 15 or 20 feet. If it can be "pointed at" a target that's ten feet away or less and have the round hit within a foot of point of aim, it's acceptable.

Main thing is, noise and recoil. I expect noise to be excessive, juding from the .38 snubs I fired, I can't speak for recoil though. For reference, the biggest thing I can handle is a Colt Python with 6 inch barrel in .357.

What's got me curious is that while the .45 or .38 have more potential power than the .22, they're coming through an awfuly short barrel; and while the .22's individualy aren't much, you can blast away with five, which may have a cumalative effect. Like buckshot.
 
Hey Snick,

In my experiences 22 auto's are not reliable.The casing of a 22 rimfire round protrudes at the bottom unlike most other centerfire rounds.This makes feeding sometimes unreliable. There are also not that many "quality" 22 Auto's.I assume the Beretta would be just about as top of the line as a 22 could be.I like the 22 round in revolvers and rifles but I would not trust my life on a 22 auto.

The good thing about a derringer is that they are very reliable because of their simplicity.Whether chambered in 38spl,9mm,or 45acp they give you significantly more firepower than a 22 auto.Chances are you would not even be able to rattle off 5 shots from the auto anyway."Iminent" threat is right up on you and if you want to come out alive,you have to hit the BG hard and quick.I personally,feel the trade off of rounds to gain a much more powerful weapon are justified.

So,IMO I think if you HAD to have a 22 auto or a large caliber Derringer you would be better off with the Derringer.Regardless of what gun you choose,make sure you practice and get comfortable with it.

Take care,

Bobby
 
While I agree with RJT that most .22 autos are not very reliable, the Beretta 21 (in my experiance) is indeed quite reliable.
Mine also holds 7+1 rounds, not the above mentioned 5.

I also find the Beretta to be easier to carry safely and put into action more quickly than my Derringers. I'm not familiar with the Texas Defender, but my Derringers (Remington copys) have awkward safeties and grips. I also can't shoot them very accurately under relaxing conditions, let alone a stressfull situation. Though I'd prefer the greater power of the .38 or .45, I'd much rather hit my target quickly and efficiently... something I doubt I can do with a derringer.

Have you looked into the .32 Beretta tomcat? A good deal more power in pretty much the same size gun as the 21 bobcat. Good luck!
 
Fire someone else's derringer first, to make sure you don't mind the recoil/blast. There's a reason why I see so many used ones. If you do get one, I would recommend heavier/slower ammo, as that would sut down on the blast and not lose much velocity in real terms.
I would go with a .32 auto for mouseguns, they tend to be reliable and much easier to handle (Kel-tec P32 is my fav, but numerous others exist). In .22, a S&W or Taurus alloy revolver would make a bulky but amazingly light 8-9 shot mousegun.

One argument in favor of a derringer is that its shape is not all that recognizable as a gun. Real down side is problematic accuracy in case bystanders are downrange.

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I have never owned a derringre, I have owned a pheonix arms .22 auto. It was just a plinker, it would jam quite often, so I wouldn't want to risk my life on it.
The reason the bigger calibers do more damage is the mass. They are launching a heavier bullet, wich will give more penetration and better energy delivered to the target.
For a very far fetched comparison, when a train hits a car it will sometimes travel a half mile to a mile, before the conductor can get it to stop, all the weight of the cars just keep on pushing it. On the other hand take a Yugo for example going the same speed hitting the same car it will stop in the proximity of the car, probably still touching it.
At this range you could opt for a speacilty bullet for whatever caliber you decide on. Maybe a glaser slug.
Really all you need is something you are confident with. I wouldn't X off the snubby 5 shots in 38 special, the tiny .380 auto, or the sub compact 9mm auto. The best to no doubt would be a sub compact .45 auto.

I had a friend that was killed using a deringer. Someone was holding up his store. He put 2 rounds of his 44 mag 220 gr. XTP dead center of the guys chest. In turn he was shot in the head with a 38 spcl.
Now odds are if he had a semi auto, he could have put a few more rounds in the guy with a less powerful pistol and put him down.
I'm a very good shot with a pistol on the range. However in a life threatening situation, who knows what goes through your mind and how that will effect your shooting. I would rather have 5 rounds over 2 any day and 10 rounds over 5. Because who knows how many time it would take to put a guy down at 20 feet, maybe one maybe six.
A good rule of thumb for the revolver or auto is to take the first in the belly, a quick point and shoot, then when the assailent reacts by grabbing the wound, aim at the head and unload.
 
JJR, you may be right about the 7+1, maybe I got the impression from a magazine that could only hold 5 rounds(+1), while the gun itself can hold more.

I rented a Bobcat a while ago, and it was a fun little gun, didn't give me too much trouble either.

I've looked at larger caliber diminutive autos, like the Tomcat, and snubs.

Part of my decision is based on personal aesthetic preference, the other is that if/when I get a "real" gun, it will likely be in .45, and I've been wanting a .22 rifle for a long time.

I've got this thing about being able to share ammo between guns. Fallout from the days I used to run with the militia types.
 
You'd do better with a .25 acp than a .22-- better-function in small autos, heavier bullet, bigger hole. (yes, there are those who tout the higher energy of the HV .22s, but what of it?)

Look at the KelTec P-32-- it's smaller than most .22's or .25's, has a MUCH more powerful cartridge, is lighter than any of the .22's or .25's, and the price is under $320.

I have never been a fan of derringers, but if you have to have an "always gun," and circumstances won't allow you to do better... then by all means go with a derringer.
 
My P32 cost me $230 with one magazine. Extra magazines (got three total) were $20 each. I prefer Fiocchi ball in it (71gr) though have a magazine of Silvertips I never used up, too. It has the advantage of being VERY light and flat, fitting into spaces where no "real" gun can ever fit.

I would still prefer a 5-shot alloy .38, but those are MUCH harder to hide, for me anyway.
I would rely on the P32, but shooting it past 20ft would be iffy, where as a .38 revolver can work past that range. I would try to avoid derringers also because of their less conventional manual of arms.
 
It's a mistake not to consider .22 cal. pistol to be sufficient for self-defence,
although I do not dispute that the bigger
the bullet, the better, of course if this
bullet hits the right spot.

Don't know about Beretta, but Ruger MKII
with 4" barrel (MK-4B), loaded with
CCI Stingers, will do an awful amount of
damage.10 Stingers=1 buckshot shell, but
you can make every shot count if you are
a good shooter. Also, .22 lead bullet
creates wounds which are far more serious
than can be expected from the theory of
.22 cartridge... as my first shooting instructor said: "I would rather prefer to
be shot with 9 mm FMJ than with this damn .22".

But, if you assume that a hit within 1 foot
area of the target is acceptable for self-defence as you see it,, you will be just fine with derringer. I do think it's a bit
too much spread...
 
I had one Deringer in .22 I dry fired it twice and the firing pin broke. For a small gun with good stopping power I'd personly go with a Kahr 9mm.

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Guns don't kill people, people kill people !
 
.25cal much weaker than a 22LR. Derringers too big for two shots only. Inaccurate , recoil straight from hell! Compare the .32acp to the 22LR in the velocity fps & the energy ft/lbs.????? Anybody???

smallgrande.jpg
 
I hae a taurus PT-22 (Beretta clone) It has been totaly reliable, I have probably put 300 rounds through it without one single malfunction. It's a fun gun, Would I bet my life on it? Probably not.
 
Hmm... I got to looking at the Kel-Tec P-32, and realized their P-11 is not much bigger, is in a larger caliber, and can share magazines with their Sub-9, which I've been eyeballing as a carbine to fit in my pack for hunting small game...

It almost seems foolish to even consider the derringer, but it's so cute and any pistol I get would be a toy a billion times for every time it was a weapon.

The only thing is I know the recoil on a 9mm that small will bug me, which is why I was/am looking at the .22.

One of the smaller centerfire cartridges would seem like a happy compromise, except they seriously limit ammo swapping.

The funny thing is that knives are all buisness to me. I have no problem finding what I'm after and getting it. Guns are almost curiosities to me, and I have a very hard time determining wether I'm after practicality or just a neat toy. It's really a rather new and weird experience...

Getting all three would be ideal, the derringer for it's style, the .22 for it's ease of plinking, and the P-11 for it's more serious defensive profile and compatability with the 9mm carbine. Unfortunately, finances do not make it feasable to buy more than one.

I suppose I'll have to shoot the derringer to see wether I like it or not, since that should be a pretty easy decision to make.

Then it's just the P-11 vs. Bobcat...

Well, at least it looks like we have a consensus on the primary question. In my experience .22's aren't harmless, but they don't exactly have stopping power. Of course, that depends on where you get hit.

As far as the 1 foot margin of error goes, I was speaking for effect rather than in precise terms. Since I can't recall ever being acosted from across the street, I can't see a need for great inherent accuracy against a target only a few feet away.

Historicaly speaking, it looks like derringers were used instead of knives, not as guns...
 
KEL TEC P-11 in 9mm.
You will love it, plus takes hi-cap S&W mags.
Forget all the mouse gun stuff. I am a surgeon and have seen what these calibers don't do.
 
I feel that a reliable .22 Long Rifle automatic is the better choice. The problem is that many lower priced .22 automatics are not reliable. In my experience, you can count on thr Walthers and Berettas. but be careful of the ammunition you use. Stick with the high velocity loads and keep your chamber dry. Some lubricanys can deacyivate .22 priming over a longer time period.
 
I have chosen a .40 cal Derriger double-action hammerless as my personal carry weapon. It's not what I wear on my hip when walking my property, but it is what I carry concealed. And as soon as it gets in, will be carring in my new wallet holster (if you haven't seen this, by all means see one before you buy).

The reason I chose it is that it is small enough to break up the shape of the gun on my body so as not to scare the little old lady sitting next to me in church. And I will always be happy to give the BG my wallet, especially with the two holed barrel of the Derringer sticking out of the end of it. "Surprise, Mr. BG."

On the other hand, it kicks like a mule. Not enough to scare me off of it, but enough that I won't be shooting it for other than getting proficient with it. Speaking of proficientcy, there's the other rub. I can hit the target consistently at 20 feet but that's about it. It shoots high and there is no adjusting the sites, so it's limited to a point and shoot weapon. Hardly a "toy" as someone above put it. All business. Don't ignore the derringer.

I definatly recommend the double action. No hammer to get caught on your pants pocket when pulling out. Just simple point and pull. Texas Arms doesn't make a DA. Mine's a S&W.

I recommend the higher calaber as well. Some jury's look less favorably on someone who kept on shooting at the now victimized BG. One shot stop makes a much better plan. Go with a higher cal or a shotgun.
 
Don't carry that derringer wallet in California! Check out Penal Code section 12020 which prohibits "wallet guns." And "lipstick knives," by the way.
 
How are thoes northamerican mini revolvers in 22short,22lr,or 22magnum? any of you own them i am interested in one? to me they look more like a novilty/fun gun?
 
While mini revolvers have been use effectively, I feel that their manual of arms makes them less than safe (I am sure folks would argue otherwise) and I am not too fond of the idea of a revolver that small...guess where the cylinder gap sideblast is going!
 
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