Depleted Uranium Penetrators in Larger Calibers

Hard Ball

New member
Depleted uranium penetrators are used in US army 120mm and 105mm APFSDS (Armor Piercing Fin Sabalized Discarding Sabot) ammunition. It proved to be highly effectiv in the Gulf War. It has superior armor penetration when compared to tungsten carbide cobalt alloy penetrator APFSDS.
It has superior armor penetration because DU-Moly allot is denser than the tungsten alloy and DU has ungodly after armor penetration incendiary effects which tungsten alloy does not have.
 
They also use DU in the smaller 30mm shells such as fired from the A-10's and have for many years.
How is this related to rifles?
 
Unfortunately they are finding out that upon impact, some of the DU material "goes aerosol" and is causing some of the worst birth defect rates in the history of Iraq. British and French scientists have been studying this phenomena, and have contacted some of the men and women who fought in Desert Storm who have also contracted some strange illnesses, and were close-in during heavy fire using DU rounds. Bad stuff...

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"No provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority" - Thomas Jefferson
 
Depleted uranium oxide is produced when depleted uranium impacts with sufficient force to induce combustion. The 120mm sabot round gives sufficient force for this combustion to occur. DU oxide is a toxic heavy metal and still retains the mild radioactivity of the original DU. The stuff is a hazardous material. The army uses it because they haven't found anything better at punching through modern MBT armor. The army sees the toxic byproducts as the lesser of two evils, the greater being defeat on the battlefield.
 
One property of uranium that isn't well known is that it does burn. Not like magnesium or sodium, but if it is powdered, it can burn very rapidly sort of like zinc. And almost any metal in an atomized form is extremely dangerous, but U adds a little more to the killing game for obvious reasons.

Like Desertscout said, what does this have to do with rifles?
 
This will be my last post on this thread as it is not on topic but there seems to be some misconceptions about the radioactivity of DU here. Maybe this will help clear it up.
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Does it glow or doesn't it?
Ever since depleted uranium (DU) shells and
armor plating made their live combat debut during the Gulf War in 1991,they seem to have baffled journalists. Now that DU has been implicated as a possible suspect in the debate over Gulf War Syndrome, its properties and characteristics have generated even more attention -- and confusion.

When U-235 (the highly fissionable isotope used to make bombs) is extracted from uranium ore, the remaining byproduct is U-238, uranium that has been "depleted" of its powerfully radioactive component. Because uranium is extremely dense (significantly more so than lead) it is useful in military roles, both as armor, and as a munition to penetrate armor.

Here's where the misunderstanding starts. News accounts of "uranium-tipped" shells "burning through" tank armor give the impression that radioactivity gives the DU shells their punch. Not so. Because of its density, DU packs more mass into the same amount of space, thus minimizing air resistance and delivering more kinetic energy, for the same reason a bullet made of lead has greater impact than, for instance, one made of tin. It's not a different kind of ammunition (as an atomic bomb differs in kind from a conventional one), it's just a more effective one.

The Defense Department has gone to great lengths to emphasize that these weapons involve traditional kinetic energy, as opposed to any sort of nuclear or radiological energy. This is the interpretation that Peter Jennings seems to have accepted, although it is not entirely accurate. In fact, DU is still radioactive. U-238 is itself radioactive and, even in its
depleted state, contains minute traces of the highly fissionable U-235 isotope.

Thousands of military personnel were "exposed to" radioactive DU during the
Gulf War, while handling shells, riding in tanks, etc. Fortunately, the radioactivity is so faint that mere exposure to it poses little discernible health risk to humans. The material is still radioactive but, when
manufactured into armor and anti-tank shells, not dangerously so.

Unfortunately, war is not neat, and this leads to an additional issue that remains still scientifically unsettled. When DU shells explode into enemy armor, and also when they penetrate DU armor in "friendly fire" incidents (which happened on at least one disastrous occasion during the Gulf War), a quantity of the DU burns and oxidizes into minute particles. These particles create an airborne dust that can be inhaled or ingested. In addition to the danger posed by the slight residual radioactivity (i.e., particles lodging in the lungs could eventually lead to cancer), uranium as a heavy metal is quite toxic, and can lead to kidney failure and other health problems. Of course, lead, tungsten and other metals used in armor and armaments are also rather unhealthy to ingest, and they are a major source of wartime health effects.

In sum, coverage of the health effects of depleted uranium must distinguish among three sets of health risks. Yes, DU is radioactive, but it is not a "nuclear" or "radiological" weapon. No, it is not particularly dangerous in its standard military form; merely being in proximity to DU-armored tanks is unlikely to harm anyone. But exposure to the airborne dust resulting from its use in combat can be harmful.

Though not, one suspects, as harmful as being on the receiving end of a DU barrage.
 
It hs to do with rifles because the question arose during discussions of "Green tip" high penetration rounds used by the rangers in combat in Somalia. See the "Black Hawk Down" threads. Suppossedly the special green tip 5.56mm bullets contained tungsten penetrators.
The Army had a program called SLAPS some years ago which attempted to develop .308 and .59 caliber MG bullets with very high penetration for use against Soviet infantry fighting vehicles and armored oersonnel carriers. Depleted uranium and tungsten alloy penetrators were supposedly tested. This technology nay have been applied to 5.56mm bullets. If so, it would explain the "Green tip bullets with tungsten penetrators" reported in 'Black Hawk Down."
 
Desertscout - I think most of us here do understand that the property of DU that makes it desirable in a projectile is its density and therefore its inherent penetrating capabilities. You are right about the misconception of the general public. I have had discussions with folks who think we are shooting small atom bombs at tanks, etc. They picture a tiny little mushroom cloud around each tank hit by a DU round.
 
The munition developed was called SLAP (Saboted Light Armor Penetrator) the rounds were devolped primarily for the 50 cal and the 7.62 (the 50 cal version was formally adapted under DODIC A519). These rounds look like the accelerator/discarding sabot round. There is no way to confuse it with a standard ball round

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God truly fights on the side with the best artillery

[This message has been edited by STLRN (edited February 14, 2000).]
 
Desertscout is right. Depleted Uranium is not radioactive. In fact, on some projects I have worked on, it was used as radiation shielding.
 
Well, depleted Uranium is radioactive, but perhaps not dangerously so which is probably what you meant. It certainly is not as dangerous as, say, Plutonium. But, I wouldn't want to carry around a chunk of it in my pocket for any period of time.

It does make a very good shield since it is denser and has a higher neutron capture cross section. It's about 5 times better than lead, but a heck of a lot more expensive so we'll probably stick with lead for a while.
 
They made .50 BMG cores in DU at the Kerr-McGee facility in Crescent, Oklahoma. They were lathe turned in oil to deny oxygen to the combustion process. They also have a hollow base to allow the insertion of tracer compound.
 
No, but I grew up in OKC and use to ride motorcycles up that way. Even went that way when I was in college in Stillwater, interstates are no fun. My best friends dad supervised the dismantling of the facility (and you think they are careful with asbestos clean up) and snagged me a few of the cores.
 
A little late in the thread. But I remember some of the testing at White Sands in 1977. I was at Holloman AFB then. Anyway, it was understood that DU has a density/displacement that's 60% higher than lead.
I remember one particular flight where an A-10 delivered it's complete salvo to an emplaced T-72, (liberated from the Egyptians). The pilot said that his aircraft dropped speed, nearing stall immediately after doing this. FTR, his A-10 had the 30MM vulcan cannon with a fire rate near 1000 rounds/min, if I remember correctly.

Best Regards,
Don


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The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler
 
Thats true - the A-10s Avenger cannon will slow the aircraft. As to how much - I dont know.
If the A-10 was going low and slow to begin with - then I can see it could be a danger.
1000 RPM? The rate, if I remember right, is much higher than that. I remember one pilot saying that it would land 600 hits per second - so that would make it about 6,000 RPM.
I still think an MBT could mount the Avenger cannon as a Main Gun. This would make it effective against tanks and APCs and aircraft and small dogs all with the same gun, and same round.
 
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