denied pistol permit in saratoga county NY, reapply help!!

K

Kirch

Inactive
I was denied my pistol permit in 2003 from Judge Jerry Scarano in Saratoga County NY. Am considering reapplying and want to run it by a few people on here to see what exactly I should do. Applicaltion was denied based on " general course of conduct following a few arrests" I'll list them out

1992 charged w/ felony assault and resisting arrest. Plead to misdemeanor assault. fight at a concert.
1998 charged w/ DWI, plead to DWAI
2001 charged w/ felony assault, charges dropped. bar fight.
2002 charged w/ misdemeanor assault and criminal mischief, plead disorderly conduct. bar fight, resulted in bouncers thumping other guy and me being blamed.

After typing the above I feel like a damn criminal. I haven't been a perfect citizen. all of the arrests were around my college years, single, at bars, etc which were full of testosterone d-bags. which resulted in a few fights here and there.

Other than that, I feel I look very good on paper. Since graduating from RIT in 1998 w/ a 3.7 GPA I have been employeed as a Mechancial Engineer ever since. I've only worked for 2 employers in the past 14 years. I'm currently working for General Electric. In addition, I'm a real estate investor and manage 27 rental units in Saratoga and Warren County. I'm an active member at the local range, were I shoot trap, skeet, rifle, archery etc. I'm a life time NYS super sportsman licence holder. Hunting is my passion!!

Only blem that may show up is a traffic infraction for going 107 in a 55 in my C6 Corvette. I grabbed a couple gears while passing a car. any of you that have fast cars know that a few gear redlines and you're well over the speed limit. In stead of possibly losing my license the judge offered 2 disorderly conduct tickets and no points on my license. Have 4 vehicles to insure I figured this was the smartest finicial decision I could make at that point in time. I've since gotten into trapping and would like to carry a side arm. I only need hunting / target.

that said, I have a few questions.

1. what are my odds of getting a permit? even though I was denied in 2003.
2. does the permit denied in 2003 show up?
3. I here there is a new judge in Saratoga County, how is he/she?
4. I'm pretty good friends with the Saratoga County under sheriff. Should I leverage that?
5. I own many properties in warren county, one is used as a summer home. I know it technically isn't my residence, but could I apply there?
6. the above arrests are the ones I recall. there may be a discon or 2 out there that I don't remember. that said, were can i get a COMPLETE list of everything I've eveer been charged with?

basically, I was a college bar rat punk at one point in time and that got me into a few fights. other than that i'm a good guy. I've done A LOT of growing up in the past 9 years. Have a lovely wife and 3 year old daughter. my record reflects ive learned from mistakes.

what are your thoughts?
 
If you have been convicted of a Felony you are S.O.L.

Violent criminal history and CCW permits don't often mix. Should have been more responsible, sorry man.
 
Well, not trying to read too much into your history, but you did offer this stuff up. So, it sounds like you may have at one time had a little bit of trouble either handling your temper or alcohol or both. Also, it sounds like now you are actually doing pretty good based on your job and the perks (corvette).

If it were me I would contact an attorney and discuss the issue with him/her and see what they advise. This may require you to take some action to convince the authorities that you have overcome your issues with anger and alcohol.
 
OK, youi were a bit rowdy and irresponsible in college. But you avoided a felony conviction. That means its not impossible. On the other hand, your past weighs against you. And you don't mention how long ago the speeding thing was, which, if recent argues against your "maturity".

You say you are good friends with the undersherrif. Ask him the best way to proceed. You've got a past that you say doesn't reflect who you are today. Fine. What you need to do is find a way to show that to the judge's satisfaction. Your friend in the system might be able to point to the best way.

I got my permit in Saratoga county in 1975. Back then, even with a spotless record, you still had to please the judge. One judge would deny any application that said defense/protection and only approve hunting/sporting use. Another judge would deny hunting applications and only approve defense/protection ones.

Trust that EVERYTHING you have in the system WILL come up during the investigation. SO, you better be able to proove you are mature and responsible, and safe. Sounds like you have a start on that, but you need someone with insight into both the system, AND the people in the system, to help you "measure up" to their expectations, so you will get approval.

Before you waste money on a lawyer (and you can always come back to that if needed), spend some time finding out if you have a chance of making it through the system without one.

Don't count on them missing something (although they might, don't count on it) be upfront and honest, you aren't the guy you were, you grew up, here's proof...etc...

I left NY in 79, and in 2002, Saratoga county sent me a letter saying that they had noticed I wasn't a state resident anymore, and so, my permit was no longer valid, and (get this) they wanted it back!!!!:eek: AND, they wanted me to tell them what happened to the guns on the permit!

They don't miss much, even if it takes them a while!:D

I'll leave my reply to your imagination.
:p

Sorry I can't be of more help, but the people I knew there back then aren't there now.:(
 
Move to state with less rules. I don't see any actual felony convictions so I think you'd get a permit in a state like mine (WA) that gives a permit to anyone with 60 bucks and fingerprints.

But in a restrictive state I'd say your app will be among the first tossed in the round file.

Good luck though.
 
Kirch said:
1992 charged w/ felony assault and resisting arrest. Plead to misdemeanor assault. fight at a concert.
1998 charged w/ DWI, plead to DWAI
2001 charged w/ felony assault, charges dropped. bar fight.
2002 charged w/ misdemeanor assault and criminal mischief, plead disorderly conduct. bar fight, resulted in bouncers thumping other guy and me being blamed.
Click to expand...

I'm a big proponent of CCW for all and I believe the right to self defense is a HUMAN right, not a civil one.

If I were a judge, or sheriff in a MAY issue state, I may not issue you one. You have demonstrated a past lack of judgement, restraint and a propensity to resort to violence. You would need to do some explaining and provide some character references to bolster your claim that you have changed.

I'd go meet with my under Sheriff friend if I were you, tell him my story and see what he thinks.
 
you do have a pretty violent past, either booze or anger management issue. I sympathize with you but not sure I would want that violent past armed and in my community. Just my truthful feeling, no offense intended. Are you looking for a CC permit or a hunting and target shooting permit ? Perhaps try for the latter and show you are more in control of yourself now. If you get that then in a year or so try again for CC.
 
Along with the police encounters while you where in college, you have shown a little bit of immaturity with the tickets.

Character references may be of some help, but I would definitely talk to the Undersheriff and possibly an attorney. Try to look at things from the judges point of view.

Good luck and let us know how you make out. It sounds like you have turned your life around and are doing well. That should go in your favor.
 
You may prevail but I think you are done. The arrests you list are over a 10 year period, not a brief span of time, and all but one are after your graduation in 1998 with the good GPA. You also state there may be other disorderly conduct arrests you don't remember. That tells me there ARE other arrests, and that you have been put in cuffs enough times that the details escape you. Not a good sign. The recent encounter with johnny law for doing 107 on a public road, which as we all know endangers others, shows a continuing lack of regard for the rights of others, and the subsequent violation of those rights. You minimize the traffic offense, and state that anyone with a fast car knows that if you redline a few gears you are well over the speed limit. Well then you knew what you were doing. You rolled the dice on that one and lost. Luckily no one pulled out to pass in front of you while you were running up their tail at that speed. Just from what you yourself posted I would have to say it appears there may be some impulse control issues, and a demonstrated proclivity to violence. It could also be that there has been a sincere change recently, in which case you should get the advice of the Sheriff and proceed. Good luck, and try to behave.
 
Your arrest record is like bad credit...it will haunt you for a looong time. And like a creditor, they review your record. No way it's going to happen this soon. Not with that sheet.
 
Some folks are just not the sort of folks that ought to be carrying guns.

Guys with multiple felony arrests for fighting are right at the top of the list.

No offense... but: You're probably not the cool headed pistol carrying sort that the law envisions when it sets forth the concepts of who should be given the power to possibly take another human life.



.
 
I believe he is just referring to a permit to purchase a handgun, not to carry one. As others have said, with your previous lack of judgement over such a long span of time, the judge was right to not issue you a permit to purchase a handgun, and even more so if it was to carry a handgun.

No offense meant, but owning a gun is a right...that you gave up by entering into the behavior that resulted in felony arrests...
 
You don't have a chance of getting a permit in New York State. I believe everyone has the right to own a gun and the right to protect themselves. I also believe you give up that right if you're not responsible, violent, or have no regard for the law. You seem to have a long track record of irresponsible behavior. I don't think you're the kind of person who should be carrying a gun. Sorry, but you brought it up. FYI: a DWI or DUI will be enough to keep you from getting a permit in NYS. If you have one, you lose it if you're convicted.
 
All I can say is move out of NY state or get a ball bat. Most states that wont ban you from owning a firearm but may get you denied for a carry permit as a "habitual alcohol offender". I would say that clean nose for 10 years is a plus but 107 in a 55 is not a traffic infraction unless its a weard NY state deal.
 
A single felony conviction in NY state does not necessarily mean you will never obtain a pistol permit there. I was an NRA Basic Pistol insructor, in NY for many years. NRA basic pistol is required before our county will even issue you a permit application. Keep in mind there are 62 countys, and all with different judges and pistol clerks, and different pre-licensing requirements.

A good friend, whom I had worked with for 25 years was initially denied a permit because of an armed robbery conviction.
He served one year in county jail because of this. He petitioned the court for a hearing, and asked me to appear as a character witness. Over the years of being an instructor, I got to know the pistol office personnel pretty well, they are not anti-gun, they just work as clerks for the judge and want to see the letter of the laws obeyed. After a hearing before a court clerk, which was attended by his lawyer and myself, he did succeed in obtaining a NY state pistol permit. (His participation in this crime was that he was in a car, driven by an aquaintenance, who pulled up to a gas / service station to get gas, then held up the station at knifepoint. The perp admitted in court that my friend had no knowledge of the robbery beforehand, but the conviction by association stood, and it ended up costing him a year of his freedom.)
 
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