Democrats about to eat their own!
- Thread starter MoW
- Start date
Scott Conklin
New member
I removed your smiley at the end
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/07/politically_dems_need_a_lieber.html
A mod can delete my post once you fix that. You can thank me later
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/07/politically_dems_need_a_lieber.html
A mod can delete my post once you fix that. You can thank me later
Rich Lucibella
Staff
As soon as I heard Lieberman's threat to run Independent if he wasn't handed the nomination, it was obvious that he was throwing down the gauntlet to his own Party: "Nominate Me or Elect a Republican". Remember, this is the same guy that refused to give up his Senate seat to a guaranteed Dem appointee when he followed AlGore down the primrose path.
However, the concept of a McCain/Lieberman "fusion" is one that never crossed my mind....and I think it would have enormous appeal. In fact, if I were to make the same mistake as I did last election by voting "the lesser of evils", I might even go for the ticket.
Don't get me wrong....I'm no Lieberman fan or even a McCain fan. in both cases, however, as National Politicians, they're hardly the worst of the bunch and, in comparison to their party lines, they both absolutely shine in certain areas.
Rich
However, the concept of a McCain/Lieberman "fusion" is one that never crossed my mind....and I think it would have enormous appeal. In fact, if I were to make the same mistake as I did last election by voting "the lesser of evils", I might even go for the ticket.
Don't get me wrong....I'm no Lieberman fan or even a McCain fan. in both cases, however, as National Politicians, they're hardly the worst of the bunch and, in comparison to their party lines, they both absolutely shine in certain areas.
Rich
Scott Conklin
New member
I can see where Lieberman might "shine" when compared to most other leftists(if you define "shine" as a dull moon glow off tarnished brass). But for the life of me I can't see where McVain shines at all, even compared to some of the more unpalatable of his fellow Repubs. Also, calling a composite Mcvieberman the "lesser of two evils" in the kind of fashion Bush was the lesser vs Gore or Kerry is just wrong.
McVain, Lieberman, Guilliani(sp), Hillary, Obama, etc...all cut from the same cloth and guaranteed destruction for about any form of freedom any of us hold dear.
McVain, Lieberman, Guilliani(sp), Hillary, Obama, etc...all cut from the same cloth and guaranteed destruction for about any form of freedom any of us hold dear.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
That's my point. Patriot I, Patriot II, the new internment proposals, wiretaps, tribunals, SCOTUS appointees.....Dubya is hardly in line for the Thomas Jefferson Award for the Second Millennium.
Freedom is not only about the Second Amendment. Keep your eye on that prize only and it will surely disappear while you watch.
Rich
Scott Conklin
New member
OTOH, Bush has at least paid lip service to his conservative base. Firearms rights, weakening abortion on demand, opposing embryonic stem cell research, giving little to no ground to the UN, cutting taxes, etc. The majority of the anti-freedom aspects of his presidency(other than falling on his face regarding the Illegal Invaders) are all foundational. Laying the groundwork for future Admins to use...(I suspect he grasps this quite well, too).
The upcoming crop, OTOH, have no desire to even attempt to offer a passing nod to freedom, conservatism, libertarianism, the Constitution or the lessons of history. Each of them, regardless of Party label, is a big government socialist tax-jacking gun-grabber, in love with the UN and looking forward to spying on each of us, if we aren't good little subjects of the coming global community at least.
That's why I say the "lesser of two evils" comparison is wrong. Bush WAS the lesser of the evils. Not by much. Only mostly in regard to time and surface issues, but still better than the alternatives. The batch we are apt to be offered soon has no better or worse choices. They are all horrible, which is why I suspect these will be the first election cycles I have failed to vote in since 1984. There simply are no choices that aren't disgusting.
Note, I've said for a long time guns are not the only issue, nor are they likely to be the issue that sparks a revolt(if we still have it in us to have one). I believe that will come from land rights and use issues, in fact, which is why I keep telling people to look to the midwest and west and forget about Limbaugh and his Beltway fixation(and forget the Beltwy itself to a large degree). The fireworks will start in fly-over country and guns will only be a consideration at first in the aspect of "I sure do hope ya got some ammo!".
The upcoming crop, OTOH, have no desire to even attempt to offer a passing nod to freedom, conservatism, libertarianism, the Constitution or the lessons of history. Each of them, regardless of Party label, is a big government socialist tax-jacking gun-grabber, in love with the UN and looking forward to spying on each of us, if we aren't good little subjects of the coming global community at least.
That's why I say the "lesser of two evils" comparison is wrong. Bush WAS the lesser of the evils. Not by much. Only mostly in regard to time and surface issues, but still better than the alternatives. The batch we are apt to be offered soon has no better or worse choices. They are all horrible, which is why I suspect these will be the first election cycles I have failed to vote in since 1984. There simply are no choices that aren't disgusting.
Note, I've said for a long time guns are not the only issue, nor are they likely to be the issue that sparks a revolt(if we still have it in us to have one). I believe that will come from land rights and use issues, in fact, which is why I keep telling people to look to the midwest and west and forget about Limbaugh and his Beltway fixation(and forget the Beltwy itself to a large degree). The fireworks will start in fly-over country and guns will only be a consideration at first in the aspect of "I sure do hope ya got some ammo!".
Rich Lucibella
Staff
2nd-
Your point? That some Pols should be given "higher" marks because, even though they knowingly lead us down the path of slavery, their actions occasionally coincide with [ours]?
And you can actually discuss the concept of "foundational" philosophy in the same breath?
Have at it. You lost me some time back.
Rich
Your point? That some Pols should be given "higher" marks because, even though they knowingly lead us down the path of slavery, their actions occasionally coincide with [ours]?
And you can actually discuss the concept of "foundational" philosophy in the same breath?
Ummm, are we looking to preserve the Constitution for generations or just make it thru our own years without a fight? "Not by much" equals "no difference" to your children.
Have at it. You lost me some time back.
Rich
I read somewhere that Lieberman voted with the Dem party 80 to 90 percent of the time. And yet they're turning him out over his principled stand on the liberation of Iraq, a policy signed into law by a Democrat president.
Reminds me of the Libertarian Party, where they'll rip you to shreds unless you're 100% pure on 100% of the issues...
I'll be pleased to see the modern Socialist party slide into the same swamp of single-digit oblivion that the Libertarian party now occupies.
Reminds me of the Libertarian Party, where they'll rip you to shreds unless you're 100% pure on 100% of the issues...
I'll be pleased to see the modern Socialist party slide into the same swamp of single-digit oblivion that the Libertarian party now occupies.
Scott Conklin
New member
Sorry, your pomposity has re-engaged it appears... Are you looking to preserve the Constitution for generations? Then what is it you are actually doing in that regard, Rich?
We effectively gave up any chance of preserving our Constitutional Republic for future generations, well, generations ago. Right now we are reduced to trying to stave off entropy while we hope someone comes up with a solution or presents a means to roll back time. Right now we are consistently presented with Option A: Hideous, and Option B: Slightly less hideous, etc, ad infinitum. There are no good choices, and there are not likely to be since we and our parents and our grandparents allowed the system to be corrupted to the point that good people have no chance to rise to the top of this heap. In that situation you choose the less hideous choice and hope to hold on/lie to yourself a while longer...
How DO we fix that? You can't just vote in better people when there are no better ones allowed to rise beyond a certain level. The good ones get stymied, or marginalized, or walk away in disgust. Options removed.
So what is it you think you are looking to do, Rich? Where is the viable alternative coming from? How will you produce one? Or are you in fact, like the rest of us, just trying to maintain in the probably baseless hope that someone will have a brilliant idea to save what is, in fact, already lost? If you have a solution instead of "Vote Third Party" or some other such meaningless effort I'm more than happy to listen.
In case that's not clear enough, yeah, I'm just looking to maintain, since I see no solution. I'm pretty certain that's where most everyone else, those relative few who actually can get away from the TV and the sports and the welfare check long enough to notice something ain't right anyway, are at, too. Honestly, with this coming crop of parasites we are expected to choose from I really don't even see a way to maintain, which was the gist of the above posts, so you should no longer be lost, k?
We effectively gave up any chance of preserving our Constitutional Republic for future generations, well, generations ago. Right now we are reduced to trying to stave off entropy while we hope someone comes up with a solution or presents a means to roll back time. Right now we are consistently presented with Option A: Hideous, and Option B: Slightly less hideous, etc, ad infinitum. There are no good choices, and there are not likely to be since we and our parents and our grandparents allowed the system to be corrupted to the point that good people have no chance to rise to the top of this heap. In that situation you choose the less hideous choice and hope to hold on/lie to yourself a while longer...
How DO we fix that? You can't just vote in better people when there are no better ones allowed to rise beyond a certain level. The good ones get stymied, or marginalized, or walk away in disgust. Options removed.
So what is it you think you are looking to do, Rich? Where is the viable alternative coming from? How will you produce one? Or are you in fact, like the rest of us, just trying to maintain in the probably baseless hope that someone will have a brilliant idea to save what is, in fact, already lost? If you have a solution instead of "Vote Third Party" or some other such meaningless effort I'm more than happy to listen.
In case that's not clear enough, yeah, I'm just looking to maintain, since I see no solution. I'm pretty certain that's where most everyone else, those relative few who actually can get away from the TV and the sports and the welfare check long enough to notice something ain't right anyway, are at, too. Honestly, with this coming crop of parasites we are expected to choose from I really don't even see a way to maintain, which was the gist of the above posts, so you should no longer be lost, k?
I would have voted for McCain at one time. However after the bashing he recieved from Bush and Company during the primaries, he still showed up to get crumbs from the table at the Republican Convention. Humbly accepted the bones Bush threw at him. The next strike is that campaign finance reform bill, while the intentions were good it was effective as a screen door on a submarine in keeping the water out. I think aliens or pod people have kidnapped the real McCain.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
2nd-
Sorry about my "pomposity"...I simply disagree with your implication that "Good" equates to anything better than The Worst.
What do I do as my small part in trying to maintain our freedoms? Lessee...I started this board for one; last I checked your own attempt at similar effort petered out before it even took shape. I've funded a newsstand magazine that brings the Libertarian writings of people like Claire Wolfe into Police Departments and homes around the world; and I worked it, full time, without pay for the first 5 years. I'm very involved in local politics and elections. I give as much as possible to organizations like JPFO and various Police departments and election campaigns nationwide. I take novices hunting regularly. I could do far more and should...we each should.
But most important, I don't go thru life teaching those around me that freedom is a lost cause. It's "can't do" attitudes like that which cause us to fail before we get started; all the while complaining about the way others do things and their lack of action in light of our seemingly perfect knowledge of the "True Path".
There, now. I've answered your questions honestly and, hopefully, without the bombast that you seem to detect. Back to the thread, please.
Rich
Sorry about my "pomposity"...I simply disagree with your implication that "Good" equates to anything better than The Worst.
What do I do as my small part in trying to maintain our freedoms? Lessee...I started this board for one; last I checked your own attempt at similar effort petered out before it even took shape. I've funded a newsstand magazine that brings the Libertarian writings of people like Claire Wolfe into Police Departments and homes around the world; and I worked it, full time, without pay for the first 5 years. I'm very involved in local politics and elections. I give as much as possible to organizations like JPFO and various Police departments and election campaigns nationwide. I take novices hunting regularly. I could do far more and should...we each should.
But most important, I don't go thru life teaching those around me that freedom is a lost cause. It's "can't do" attitudes like that which cause us to fail before we get started; all the while complaining about the way others do things and their lack of action in light of our seemingly perfect knowledge of the "True Path".
There, now. I've answered your questions honestly and, hopefully, without the bombast that you seem to detect. Back to the thread, please.
Rich
Scott Conklin
New member
I don't believe I even implied "good" is simply not "the worst" or that there is any good at all to choose from. I said I don't see any better options. It's a matter of choosing the best of a very bad lot, nothing more. The alternative, right now, is choosing the worst and causing...God knows what. Or just not participating at all.
MY efforts at boards have met with varying levels of success over the years. The one to which you refer here was YOUR idea, one which I told you publicly and in private was doomed to failure before it ever started(though I am still tinkering in my spare time).
Also, I did not say freedom is a lost cause. I said I see no opportunity for a solution for OUR problems, though how we got here is rather plain. The solutions aren't that complex, either. It's having the ability to create or impliment those solutions that is daunting. A BB on the Net, or even several, isn't going to get the job done. Our involvement in local politics obviously isn't(though there was a time I really thought it might) either.
So while you answered, the questions remain. BB's and local politics aren't the answer. The vote isn't the answer. Throwing money at our favorite orgs isn't going to get the job done. I don't think any of us actually want to see a "revolution", nor believe it could have the desired results... So, what?
I say things like this and ask such question in the hopes someone will read it and not become discouraged but rather have the kind of epiphany we need. Without someone having such we're stuck with the same old same old, like what we continue to do here. It accomplishes nothing except maybe slowing the inexorable slide. Anyway, back to the regularly scheduled program(though we didn't really change the channel anyway, did we?).
MY efforts at boards have met with varying levels of success over the years. The one to which you refer here was YOUR idea, one which I told you publicly and in private was doomed to failure before it ever started(though I am still tinkering in my spare time).
Also, I did not say freedom is a lost cause. I said I see no opportunity for a solution for OUR problems, though how we got here is rather plain. The solutions aren't that complex, either. It's having the ability to create or impliment those solutions that is daunting. A BB on the Net, or even several, isn't going to get the job done. Our involvement in local politics obviously isn't(though there was a time I really thought it might) either.
So while you answered, the questions remain. BB's and local politics aren't the answer. The vote isn't the answer. Throwing money at our favorite orgs isn't going to get the job done. I don't think any of us actually want to see a "revolution", nor believe it could have the desired results... So, what?
I say things like this and ask such question in the hopes someone will read it and not become discouraged but rather have the kind of epiphany we need. Without someone having such we're stuck with the same old same old, like what we continue to do here. It accomplishes nothing except maybe slowing the inexorable slide. Anyway, back to the regularly scheduled program(though we didn't really change the channel anyway, did we?).