Democracy or Republic?

J

John/az2

New member
Maybe you guys can set me straight on something here.

I hear over and over again from people in high position about how we live in a Democracy, yet were we not set up as a Republic?


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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
 
A Democracy is where the people vote directly on each and every issue. A Republic is where the citizens for for representatives who then vote for the issues. Actually a Republic is a modified Democracy. Theory being that the representatives are a buffer against mob rule.

Now putting the definition aside. There are certain rights of the individual that even the majority does not have the right to deny to them. Self defense being one of them. In order to keep the people from relalizing the truth of this, the term Democracy is often used to show that since the majority of the people want something... it is then OK to deny those rights of the miniority.

Hope this helps.



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Richard

The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!
 
We are a Constitutional Republic that utilizes representative democracy.

A constitution is a system of fundemental laws and principles that prescribes the nature, functions and limits to the government. It sets the standards
If we were a "true" democracy, then anything goes.

There are 2 wolves and a sheep...the wolves are hungry:
1) Constitutional Republic..the law and Constituyion precludes the wolves from eating the sheep.
2) Democracy....they all vote, the wolves win by majority, the sheep is lunch

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
DC...

Perfect example! Sheep is lunch!

The very fact that the majority of Americans believe we live in a Democracy is evidence of years of effective left wing propaganda. The old addage, to tell a lie enough times, people will begin to believe it to be true.
 
I was always rather fond of mutton...


DC, you're a hoot! :)

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Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain, and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
 
Yes, of coarse, we were set up as a constitutional Republic. The Founders,as an example would be Shocked to se ethat in 1913 we decided to elect Senators by popular vote! These old white boys knew that the Senate was supposed to be the watchdog of the states against the other two branches. Now the senate is just mob democracy at work and proved itself the Venile organization it is recently. But Senators have been corrupt for decades. Now it is wide open corruption and admitted corruption. Sure we now are a mob democra`cy and the next step wull surely be chaos and then dictatorship . THen we can start over again after the dictatorship is destroyed!
 
Very timely posting ...

Tomorrow (Saturday) we in Australia have a referendum to determine whether we will stay as we are (constitutional monarchy) or move to a republic.

The issues are complex (and being clouded by much emotion and deceit). Historically, the republic will be rejected (because referenda are historically defeated). However, this doesn't mean a lot of people don't want us to become a republic, it's just that they object to the one and only model we're allowed to vote for.

This has the President:

• as head of state -- but just a figurehead
• elected not by people's vote but by a 2/3 majority of parliament
• anyone may nominate for the position of President, but only the Prime Minister selects the shortlist to be put to Parliament
• the President can be sacked without notice by the Prime Minister

There are also some changes sneaked into the Constitution, which effectively give the Federal Govt power over the States.

No right to self-defence is envisaged, mentioned or even in the running!!

I might upset my Aussie mates on this board, but I'm voting "No" until I and others like me get a damn sight more of a hearing and more say. (And, no, I'm not a monarchist. I don't think even QEII is a monarchist these days!)

B
 
Excellent explanation men! The JB Soc. writers for the New American couldn't have said it better. :D

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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
 
Bruce,
In the republic:
1) how would the Prime Minister be selected? Who has power over him?
2) are Members of Parliament elected by popular vote?

QEII not a monarchist... :D :D

(aside: The administrator returned the second address as non-existent.... ?)
 
1)how would the Prime Minister be selected?
Same as now - by the house of representatives.

Who has power over him?
Well at the moment the governor general can sack him after getting approval from the Queen - then an election is called.
The members of his party in parliament and his cabinet can over rule him.
The Prime Minister isn't mentioned in our constitution, all of his powers have come from convention.

2) are Members of Parliament elected by popular vote?

No they are appointed like the house of Lords, one day the title - Lord Protector of Woop Woop will pass to me and I will take my seat in parliament. :)

I myself a monarchist will support a republic one day, but this one is being pushed by the elitest group the Australian Republican movement, and the main movers are Irish Catholics(Turnbull,Thomas Keneally,Paul Keating) whos main reason for wanting a republic is that they hate the British.
They have been condescending and insulting saying it's time for us to grow up, that the world will think we are weird if it fails(who gives a F*** what the world thinks), saying it's un Australian to vote no.
There has been no grass roots support for a republic at all.
When a directly elected president is put to a referendum and it's pushed by people not insulting our past it will succeed.
 
RA,

(Hmm. Sounds like the Sun God of Egypt! ;))

Above all else that you explained, you really hit home (with me) about not
caring what the rest of the world thinks! Frankly, it’s none of their (our)
business - and I bet we agree on THAT!

And when a government begins that un-Australian (or un-American)
crappola I begin to smell a skunk in the woodshed!

As for your government (because I have NOT done my homework!), I got
confused pretty quickly! So, rather than bore you (AND show my gross
ignorance! ;) ), I’ll do a little reading before I ask more questions.

Thanks for the “comeback”.
 
Well, it's early yet, but it looks like the republic issue has been defeated, and Australia will remain a constitutional monarchy.

Maybe now the politicians will give us a republic on our terms and with our input.

Stick it up the pollies!

They don't trust me to own guns, I won't trust them to run a republic.

B
 
LAST UPDATE:

The "politicians' republic" has been defeated. And I won't lose sleep over it.

I found out from the Australian Electoral Commission that it was permissible to add a small "note" to the ballot paper without invalidating your vote, providing it was in the top half of the ballot paper. I wrote:


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"You wouldn't trust me with my guns. But you want me to trust YOU with a republic. You are joking, right?"[/quote]

It won't do any good, but s#*t it made me feel better!!!! (Apologies for the language.)

B
 
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." I believe that pretty much sums up which one we live in. YMMV
 
Interesting note, the Pledge of Allegiance, was writen buy the Socialist party. They sold US Flags for a fundraiser, and wrote the pledge for an advertisement.

The US is a Constitutional republic, because our government is based on the consitution. The rules of opperation are set up under it. The US is also a representative democracy because we elect representatives who run the government and subject to re-election through the democatic process. All the Civic mumbo-jumbo is routinely messed up by the media and popular culture. I would encourage anyone who is interested to take a civics class from a local university.
 
At one time the United States was a Republic. Over time it degenerated into a Socialist Ologarchy. Socialist, because our free market has been ruined; Ologarchy, because no matter how you vote, you're simply making choices from the same ruling Political Class
 
Cdf,you are sounding like me when you talk of the elite ruling classes. But it is true and people still "dont get it". Mob democracy does rule nowdays.
 
Like others here I know that the US began as a Constitutional Republic. But, I too agree that we are now living in a democracy. The politicians don't give a damn about the Constitution, and pass whatever laws they want. But, the problem isn't just with the Legislative branch. The Judicial branch is doing a horrible job of actually enforcing the penalties, specified by the legislature, on those who break the law.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the House of Representatives set up as a balancing force for the Senate? That is, weren't the Representatives supposed to be regular folks like you and me? Now they're all career criminals, oops, I mean politicians just like the Senators.

A question: are cops members of the judicial or executive branch? I don't remember from school.
Tx, -Kframe
 
There are a lot of well educated people on this forum!
cdf, you hit it on the head. It sure is an ologarchy. The checks and ballances are all gone. The three branches are united in one evil cause: perpetuating their own interests and keeping us peasants in line.
This is my first post!
 
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