Redhawk5.5+P+
New member
Double ended hallow base wadcutter 147g+-.
I've heard of OSHBWC, but did they ever make a DE?
I've heard of OSHBWC, but did they ever make a DE?
DEHBWC?
- Thread starter Redhawk5.5+P+
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Mike Irwin
Staff
How could you have a double end hollow base? You'd have hollows in both the front and rear. Be a very light, or a very long, bullet. I'd think the ballistics would suffer.
Shadi Khalil
New member
I've never heard of anything of the sort.
The British did produce a bullet of this type for the Webley revolver.
See the illustrations in this thread of the Mk3 bullet - popularly known as the "Manstopper".
Phil
See the illustrations in this thread of the Mk3 bullet - popularly known as the "Manstopper".
Phil
Mike Irwin
Staff
But that wasn't really a double ended wadcutter.
If you look at the schematic illustration, it shows clearly that it is to be loaded into the case in one direction only because of the location of the grease grooves.
The manstopper bullet also wasn't designed to be loaded flush with the case mouth.
A true double-ended wad cutter will have the grease grooves disributed equally along its entire length so it can truly be loaded into the case either end pointing out, and it's designed to be loaded flush with the case mouth.
If you look at the schematic illustration, it shows clearly that it is to be loaded into the case in one direction only because of the location of the grease grooves.
The manstopper bullet also wasn't designed to be loaded flush with the case mouth.
A true double-ended wad cutter will have the grease grooves disributed equally along its entire length so it can truly be loaded into the case either end pointing out, and it's designed to be loaded flush with the case mouth.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Oh, and thank you for posting that, because I had always heard that the early Adams cartridges used a built up case, and those drawings confirm that.
I've never seen such an animal. It would seem the tools for making such a boolit would be excessively complicated and expensive. Either a swaging set or a mould would be complicated and difficult to use. Imagine if you can a "Double Cramer". And for WHAT end? My sense is that there would be little benefit.
Mike Irwin
Staff
This is a true double end wadcutter.
Notice the lube grooves.
Notice the lube grooves.
hollow on both ends? why not?
Have heard of the idea, but never saw any. The idea behind a hollow base WC was that a miniscule powder charge would still flare the base of the bullet into the rifling, proividing fine accuracy with a minimal load for target use.
Now, some people (eyes shift rapidly left and right) have been loading the hollow base WC upside down....producing a load with a huge hollow point, and predictable results from the soft lead slug. Massive expansion and very limited penetration.
Others have decried this practice as inherently unsafe, and indeed, if one loads to anywhere near service ammo velocity, it becomes obvious there is a risk. My personal experience with these kinds of loads is that at very low speeds (600fps or so) we have not experienced any problems, and accuracy is more than adequate for short range plinking.
A double ended hollow base wadcutter would seem to allow for the benefit of both, good expansion of the base into the rifling for accuracy, and a huge hollow "point" for expantion in target medium.
The only real risk I see with such a design (assuming the hollow "point" is shallow enought not to risk creating a small lead pipe out of the bullet) is that with a dead soft slug, one must restrict it to mouse fart loads. And of course, someone, somewhere will disregard that restriction and load it heavier, with possibly very bad results.
Also, if one goes to an alloy for bullet material, one loses the bulk of the expansion, even though higher speeds are safely possible. It really becomes a zero sum game rather quickly.
As a defensive round, its use is highly questionable for effectivness. Great exspansion is fine, but insufficient penetration argues against stopping power. Choosing defensive loads that may reach vital organs is choosing poorly. Stepping up the velocity without hardening the slug is asking for trouble, and hardening the slug moves you back into the realm of conventional service ammo, where there are better performing bullets and loads.
Have heard of the idea, but never saw any. The idea behind a hollow base WC was that a miniscule powder charge would still flare the base of the bullet into the rifling, proividing fine accuracy with a minimal load for target use.
Now, some people (eyes shift rapidly left and right) have been loading the hollow base WC upside down....producing a load with a huge hollow point, and predictable results from the soft lead slug. Massive expansion and very limited penetration.
Others have decried this practice as inherently unsafe, and indeed, if one loads to anywhere near service ammo velocity, it becomes obvious there is a risk. My personal experience with these kinds of loads is that at very low speeds (600fps or so) we have not experienced any problems, and accuracy is more than adequate for short range plinking.
A double ended hollow base wadcutter would seem to allow for the benefit of both, good expansion of the base into the rifling for accuracy, and a huge hollow "point" for expantion in target medium.
The only real risk I see with such a design (assuming the hollow "point" is shallow enought not to risk creating a small lead pipe out of the bullet) is that with a dead soft slug, one must restrict it to mouse fart loads. And of course, someone, somewhere will disregard that restriction and load it heavier, with possibly very bad results.
Also, if one goes to an alloy for bullet material, one loses the bulk of the expansion, even though higher speeds are safely possible. It really becomes a zero sum game rather quickly.
As a defensive round, its use is highly questionable for effectivness. Great exspansion is fine, but insufficient penetration argues against stopping power. Choosing defensive loads that may reach vital organs is choosing poorly. Stepping up the velocity without hardening the slug is asking for trouble, and hardening the slug moves you back into the realm of conventional service ammo, where there are better performing bullets and loads.
Strafer Gott
New member
The acronym that I and apparently others cherish is DEBBWC, or simply BBWC.
148 grains of pleasure to shoot, and you don't have to shoot them slow.
I found another 500 under my bench last Sunday, and practically jumped for joy! I like to load them flush with the case mouth with just a wee roll crimp.
This is what p-o's me the most about lead- polygonal rifling. Otherwise I'd use these everywhere and on anything.
148 grains of pleasure to shoot, and you don't have to shoot them slow.
I found another 500 under my bench last Sunday, and practically jumped for joy! I like to load them flush with the case mouth with just a wee roll crimp.
This is what p-o's me the most about lead- polygonal rifling. Otherwise I'd use these everywhere and on anything.
aarondhgraham
New member
I really hate acronyms,,,
What does DEBBWC stand for?
Aarond
.
What does DEBBWC stand for?
Aarond
.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Double end bevel base wad cutter
Redhawk5.5+P+
New member
Thanks,
I'm trying to get a pic of Double end bevel base wad cutter, and a pic of a flat base WC.
I'm couldn't find one yet.
Still looking.
I'm trying to get a pic of Double end bevel base wad cutter, and a pic of a flat base WC.
I'm couldn't find one yet.
Still looking.