define brandishing a fire-arm
- Thread starter camaroman
- Start date
Unfortunately, that definition is up to your state and local ordinances. It's usually contains something about "in a threatening manner." Given what the bedwetters of today's society consider threatening, there's probably a lot of leeway in most laws.
From a federal standpoint, as long as both the barrel and the OAL of the shotgun exceed the minimum specified lengths, you're golden. Again, however, state and local issues may apply as well.
Dusty Miller
New member
A security guard here in the People's Republic of Mexifornia was faced with a small group of teenagers and during the discussion that ensued chose to rest the heel of his hand on the grip of his gun. You guessed it, he was charged with "brandishing a weapon".
TAMARA: Thats pretty much what I thought. darn bedwetters!!
MADISON: I would agree with you, but who knows what da gooberment says.
DUSTY MILLER: When I was a senior in highschool one of the security guards was a glock fanatic. We were talking about glocks and some how it was turned around by some weinnie that he should us the gun outside the holster. Ofcourse he was relieved of his position. But ya know he was probably a criminal cuz he has one of those guns that can get through an airport undetected. Jeeze!
September will be interesting
MADISON: I would agree with you, but who knows what da gooberment says.
DUSTY MILLER: When I was a senior in highschool one of the security guards was a glock fanatic. We were talking about glocks and some how it was turned around by some weinnie that he should us the gun outside the holster. Ofcourse he was relieved of his position. But ya know he was probably a criminal cuz he has one of those guns that can get through an airport undetected. Jeeze!
September will be interesting
Dusty Miller
Please post a link to that account or the name of the agency/jurisdiction that sought prosecution. Off hand, merely resting a hand on a holstered weapon does not fit CA's statutory definition of brandishing (417PC) which requires display or exhibiting of the weapon. Was it perhaps some county or municipal ordinance that was violated, or was there more to the security officer's actions than was publicly reported?
Please post a link to that account or the name of the agency/jurisdiction that sought prosecution. Off hand, merely resting a hand on a holstered weapon does not fit CA's statutory definition of brandishing (417PC) which requires display or exhibiting of the weapon. Was it perhaps some county or municipal ordinance that was violated, or was there more to the security officer's actions than was publicly reported?
Dusty Miller
New member
I didn't say his behavior fit the definition of brandishing a weapon in California, only that he was thusly charged. Hopefully he was acquitted or the charges were dropped but this is California, after all, and you don't have to be inviolation of the law to be charged with a crime! A business man in Berkely was fired upon in a holdup and he returned fire. He was charged with a crime. The law don't mean crap to a liberal district attorney.
The eye of the beholder...
Some years ago a story, probably apocryphal, circulated in the San Diego area about a pending civil suit. Driver A had somehow offended Driver B in traffic. Driver B reacted by pursuing A, getting along side A and going through some repertoire of gestures, feinted attempts to drive A off the road, and other such road rage hysterics. Driver A reportedly responded by displaying a gun magazine (periodical.) Driver B panicked, slammed on the brakes, lost control, and found a tree to collide with. The story ended with comments on how long the civil suit would take to reach court, and eager anticipation of the results.
Brandishing would seem to be in the eye of the beholder: First the person or people who see the weapon, second the law enforcement agency responding, third the District Attorney’s office, and, lastly the jury, should it come to that. Best to organize things so that you never learn for sure.
Some years ago a story, probably apocryphal, circulated in the San Diego area about a pending civil suit. Driver A had somehow offended Driver B in traffic. Driver B reacted by pursuing A, getting along side A and going through some repertoire of gestures, feinted attempts to drive A off the road, and other such road rage hysterics. Driver A reportedly responded by displaying a gun magazine (periodical.) Driver B panicked, slammed on the brakes, lost control, and found a tree to collide with. The story ended with comments on how long the civil suit would take to reach court, and eager anticipation of the results.
Brandishing would seem to be in the eye of the beholder: First the person or people who see the weapon, second the law enforcement agency responding, third the District Attorney’s office, and, lastly the jury, should it come to that. Best to organize things so that you never learn for sure.
Dusty,
Thanks for the reply but in what jurisdiction did that event take place? Also, with regards to the incident in Berkeley, was that a recent incident? When did it occur? I don't mean to hassle you but I'm simply trying to establish facts in these matters so that TFL doesn't pick up the reputation of being a board which fosters errornet rumors. TIF!
Thanks for the reply but in what jurisdiction did that event take place? Also, with regards to the incident in Berkeley, was that a recent incident? When did it occur? I don't mean to hassle you but I'm simply trying to establish facts in these matters so that TFL doesn't pick up the reputation of being a board which fosters errornet rumors. TIF!
California Penal Code Section 417
417. (a) (1) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the
presence of any other person, draws or exhibits any deadly weapon
whatsoever, other than a firearm, in a rude, angry, or threatening
manner, or who in any manner, unlawfully uses a deadly weapon other
than a firearm in any fight or quarrel is guilty of a misdemeanor,
punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than 30
days.
(2) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the presence of
any other person, draws or exhibits any firearm, whether loaded or
unloaded, in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, or who in any
manner, unlawfully uses a firearm in any fight or quarrel is
punishable as follows:
(A) If the violation occurs in a public place and the firearm is a
pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person, by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than three
months and not more than one year, by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
(B) In all cases other than that set forth in subparagraph (A), a
misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not less
than three months.
(b) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the presence of
any other person, draws or exhibits any loaded firearm in a rude,
angry, or threatening manner, or who, in any manner, unlawfully uses
any loaded firearm in any fight or quarrel upon the grounds of any
day care center, as defined in Section 1596.76 of the Health and
Safety Code, or any facility where programs, including day care
programs or recreational programs, are being conducted for persons
under 18 years of age, including programs conducted by a nonprofit
organization, during the hours in which the center or facility is
open for use, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison
for 16 months, or two or three years, or by imprisonment in a county
jail for not less than three months, nor more than one year.
(c) Every person who, in the immediate presence of a peace
officer, draws or exhibits any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded,
in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, and who knows, or reasonably
should know, by the officer's uniformed appearance or other action
of identification by the officer, that he or she is a peace officer
engaged in the performance of his or her duties, and that peace
officer is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, shall be
punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than nine
months and not to exceed one year, or in the state prison.
(d) Except where a different penalty applies, every person who
violates this section when the other person is in the process of
cleaning up graffiti or vandalism is guilty of a misdemeanor,
punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than three
months nor more than one year.
(e) As used in this section, "peace officer" means any person
designated as a peace officer pursuant to Chapter 4.5 (commencing
with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2.
(f) As used in this section, "public place" means any of the
following:
(1) A public place in an incorporated city.
(2) A public street in an incorporated city.
(3) A public street in an unincorporated area.
Just in case anyone wanted to know what the actual law says....
417. (a) (1) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the
presence of any other person, draws or exhibits any deadly weapon
whatsoever, other than a firearm, in a rude, angry, or threatening
manner, or who in any manner, unlawfully uses a deadly weapon other
than a firearm in any fight or quarrel is guilty of a misdemeanor,
punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than 30
days.
(2) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the presence of
any other person, draws or exhibits any firearm, whether loaded or
unloaded, in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, or who in any
manner, unlawfully uses a firearm in any fight or quarrel is
punishable as follows:
(A) If the violation occurs in a public place and the firearm is a
pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person, by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than three
months and not more than one year, by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
(B) In all cases other than that set forth in subparagraph (A), a
misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not less
than three months.
(b) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the presence of
any other person, draws or exhibits any loaded firearm in a rude,
angry, or threatening manner, or who, in any manner, unlawfully uses
any loaded firearm in any fight or quarrel upon the grounds of any
day care center, as defined in Section 1596.76 of the Health and
Safety Code, or any facility where programs, including day care
programs or recreational programs, are being conducted for persons
under 18 years of age, including programs conducted by a nonprofit
organization, during the hours in which the center or facility is
open for use, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison
for 16 months, or two or three years, or by imprisonment in a county
jail for not less than three months, nor more than one year.
(c) Every person who, in the immediate presence of a peace
officer, draws or exhibits any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded,
in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, and who knows, or reasonably
should know, by the officer's uniformed appearance or other action
of identification by the officer, that he or she is a peace officer
engaged in the performance of his or her duties, and that peace
officer is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, shall be
punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than nine
months and not to exceed one year, or in the state prison.
(d) Except where a different penalty applies, every person who
violates this section when the other person is in the process of
cleaning up graffiti or vandalism is guilty of a misdemeanor,
punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than three
months nor more than one year.
(e) As used in this section, "peace officer" means any person
designated as a peace officer pursuant to Chapter 4.5 (commencing
with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2.
(f) As used in this section, "public place" means any of the
following:
(1) A public place in an incorporated city.
(2) A public street in an incorporated city.
(3) A public street in an unincorporated area.
Just in case anyone wanted to know what the actual law says....