Defensive Shotgun Load Choice for Home Defense..

FS2K

New member
The Shotgun has been an important player in the protection of one's property here in the US since it's very beginning. Of course designs have changed over the years but the Shotgun remains till this day a very popular choice for home owners around the world. The same qualities that makes it such an asset in a bird hunt make the Shotgun such a prime choice for home defense, that is, if loaded with the right type of ammunition.

Many people believe that the only round suitable for the home is 00 Buck. I disagree. 00 Buck is an extremely lethal round especially at in-home distances but its rounds also carry enough kinetic energy to pass right through thin wood and drywall hurting or possibly killing innocent bystanders in the process. The MAIN concern here it distance. Shotgun ammunition isn't known for it's ability to cover vast areas, instead it has become famous for its achievements at close to medium range. Also called a "Scattergun" the shotgun fires not one, but many different and seperate projectiles all at once. Depending on the barrel shape and length these 'shots' or lead pellets will either still relatively close to each other, or fan out wide bettering the odds of scoring a hit on a lone target. These different sized shots are given a number according to size, the higher the number the smaller the pellet size. A #4 shot then is way larger than #8 'Birdshot' for instance.

The shots fired from a Scattergun tend to spread apart wider and wider the further away they go. But at 'in house' distances even the smallest of shot size tends to group tightly, not having the time/distance to spread away from each other. This concentrated shot can cause a surprising amount of damage to flesh and bone.

This is why for me, regular old #6 shot will do for Home Defense. They are too small to carry themselves through walls and are probably the least prone to cause collateral damage while still being able to handle home defense duties. 00 Buck on the other hand DO have the potential of passing through walls and through doors. The 00 Buck is an EXCELLENT field round for a Scattergun and perfect for outdoor use, but for in-home purposes they're simply overkill.

So the question arises: Is the #6 shot capable of outright killing an intruder? Maybe. Perhaps the question should be "Is the #6 capable of STOPPING an intruder in your home?" and to that I say: Absolutely. You see the psychological effect getting shot with a Scattergun has on a person when you see police using non-lethal rounds on criminals on TV. The perps don't KNOW they are being shot with beanbags. The reactions are almost textbook. The first reaction is surprise but that doesn't last more than an instant till the pain registers. You can almost see the energy drain right out of them. They think they were shot dead and give up, at least all the video's I've seen.
The #6 shot has lethal potential at CQB distance, will stop an adversary but NOT at the risk of endangering neighbors and family members in other rooms.

Shotguns have a wide range of available types of Ammunition to choose from, an you could also use a "staggered load" for home defense as another option as well.

Non-Lethal Beanbag as shot one followed by two rounds of #6 shot and capped off with #4 or 00 Buck.

Or 1/2 #6 1/2 00 Buck.

Or whatever combo as you choose. Point being, you don't have to load your Shotgun with only one type of shell.
 
I'll stick with #1 buck ->00 buck thanks.

SHooting some one that broke into your house with a bean bag round? hitting them in the head with a baseball bat would be much more effective. How can you say #6 shot or any small shot, might not kill someone, yet still stop them? when people are on drugs, of many different types...THEY DO NOT FEEL PAIN. So relying on pain, and a psychological effect of being shot to stop the attacker is rediculous. It may work...but if it dosent? what happens then? you get killed b/c you wanted to play some game shooting a 200lb person with bird shot ment for 2lb critters? if you pull the trigger on a shotgun you might as well shoot the most deadly round out of it.

I'd rather take the chance of having the ammo i am shooting injur an innocent, than having doubts it will stop the attack from an attacker that will DEFINITLY injur or kill that innocent.
 
My fusil de boudoir contains a 3" mag #000 up the spout with 7 rds of 2 3/4" #00 (S&B with 12 in each one) in the magazine. I sleep with at least 2 handguns. We don't live in an apartment so if I have to go for the 12 ga I want the nastiest loads available for use at short range. This gives me the ability to launch about 90 projectiles in 5-7 seconds, which comes out about even with an smg for the 1st magazine. I don't sit around hoping for the "chance" to shoot somebody, but if I have to shoot I want it to make whatever I'm shooting at want to fall down or leave.
 
After more years thinking about it than I care to admit, I've settled on #4 buckshot. Good coverage for HD, but not overpenetration. I've got some #000 magnum buck, but I can't imagine what I'd ever use them for. Maybe shooting at a vehicle, but certainly not in the house. Those things scare me. :eek:
 
I go along with FS2K on this, my preference is smaller shot, though i prefer #4's. Now before you guys that prefer the big buckshot jump all over this, consider: the distance in the average household you may have to face an intruder is short, 20 or 30 feet perhaps, and even with an imp. cyl. choke, its going to be almost like shooting a slug. yet the pellets will disperse energy fast enough not to be a danger to colateral targets. and with around 135 pellets per ounce for #4's thats going to make one big nasty wound.
I used to think in terms of big shot for home defence, until about 3 years ago, while out turkey hunting, i was "confronted" by 3 dogs in a pack that had been running deer. They're attitude left no room for doubt they were in the mood to kill and at about 30 yards with them facing me directly, heads lowered, growling and teeth bared, 2 shots had dropped 2 of them and we found the 3rd about 100 yards away. He'd tried to run when i shot the first two, and i hit him at probably 50 yards square in the tailpipe with 1 1/2 copper plated 4's.
Now granted, man sized targets wouldnt be the same, but at the close ranges in a household, ive got confidence birdshot would be every bit as effective as the big balls. If i would happen to have intruders outside the home, around the autos, barn, shop etc, the few seconds it takes to reload to buckshot or a slug really isnt an issue, and in that case, i'll have time to grab my .45 also.
For the four legged varmints, thats usually at a longer range, and on the occasion i see them sniffing around the livestock, i find the old '06 to be the best medicine for them
While no two cases will be the same, and God forbid any of us have to confront an intruder, we can only hope that big 12 bore is intimidating enough to make them think.

I also think about having to respond to a judge, when he asks "you shot him with WHAT?"
 
I am a big fan of #1 buck.I got the old 870 loaded up with 3 inch #1 which I believe to be about as good as it gets for caliber to pellet ratio.In a 2 3/4 shell you get 16 pellets of .30 call pellets to only 9 in 00.you only loose .3 caliber for almost twice the pellets.My set up is 3 inch #1 in the pipe safety on 5 more rounds of 3 inch #1 with the last being a 3 inch 000.I go with the 000 on the last round for 2 reasons.1.It will kick alot more and let me know Im empty.2.If the other 6 rounds of #1 didnt put him down then I want the biggest damn thing I can find for my last shot.I also keep 6 rounds of 2 3/4 #1 on the stock and 2 rounds of low recoil slugs,2 rounds of full power slugs,and 2 more 3 inch 000 on the side saddle.slugs IMHO arent really a good self defense round for the house.I keep 4 slugs on the 870 for the weight and also if I ever need to shoot through a car or a fleeing car.I dont think its ever really a good Idea to shoot at a fleeing car and it will probably land you in jail but I believe in having the option just in case.I do not think any bird shot is good for self defense,just not enough penetration.I dont even like #4 for self defense but I would take that over birdshot anyday.one of the first things I did when I moved into my current house was play out how it would go down if someone was in my house that wasnt invited and most angles at which it could happen put the rounds that would have missed into places where there wasnt likely to be any people even if it did go through a wall.I think over penetraion is overblown when talking about inside the house.Please keep in mind that I am not talking about a drive by scenerio where there are often innocents killed by over penetraion.
 
I have to agree with FS2K and spottedpony here. At the distances you might encounter in a home defense situation, shooting smaller bird shot will deliver the same results as any buckshot loads. Under thirty feet the spread you're delivering will be so minute that all of the energy will be retained and transferred to a relatively small area. This will be more than sufficient, trust me, I know. Even #8 would do at this distance with a good center mass shot. The energy transferred would drop any BG due to shock and interruption to the nervous system, no matter what drugs they may have in their system at the time.

Since penetration through the walls is not a big concern in my house, I keep #4 steel shot in the Winchester 1300 at all times. Why? Because I'm a duck hunter and believe in these magnum loads moving at 1250 fps. This is my secondary HD gun, though. My primary sleeps in the nightstand next to my side of the bed, a Taurus 4410 loaded with the first three cyliders as #4 lead and the last two loaded with 45's. Best of both worlds.
 
Thanks FS2K, and others...I think you are pretty much thinking like I do about a HD shotgun and load choices.

I am rethinking that it would be preferrable to start with say, BB's for the first round and then go to #4 for the next two then up to 00 for the last two. reloads would be 00, by that time you may really want the penetration abilities of 00, because you would be in one serious gunfight at that point :D

I used to think that 00 was the best for every application but the overpenetration issue in homes has me concerned.
 
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Kickshot...(I'm following you around:)) Thats the "Judge" right? ( Great name for a gun... gunblast.com did a review on it)

I was wondering what the FPS would be for shot out of the pistol barrel. any ideas? Winchester makes some 3 inch 000 .410s with 5 pellets in it going at 1135 out of a shotgun.

That would be pretty interesting/fun to play around with and see what it could do.
 
Birdshot frequently has a hard time stopping birds, much less a BG. Counting on a psychological stop is about the same as counting on the BG to quit because you yell at him. Go with any good buckshot that patterns well in your gun.

The energy transferred would drop any BG due to shock and interruption to the nervous system, no matter what drugs they may have in their system at the time.
That simply is not true. Way to many verified instances of BGs getting hit with shotguns at fairly close range who did not drop right away.
 
The first two rounds loaded in my slug-barreled Nova with extended magazine are 2 3/4" No. 4 Buck (27 pellets each). The last five are 3" 00 Buck (15 pellets each). Five 2 3/4" slugs ride in a "Side-Saddle". The "Judge" is too courtly a name for this set-up. I call it "The Grim Reaper."
 
Hmm, before I bought my shotgun, I did a fair amount of research on this topic... Box o Truth was the easy place, with nice pictures:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14_4.htm

#8 - penetrated 1 sheet of drywall (inside 1 wall)
#6 - shock value but little stopping power
(http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm - note at bottom of page)
#4 (27 pellets) @ 12ft (3 1/2" pattern)
penetrated 6 sheets of drywall (3 walls)
#1 (18 pellets) @ 12ft (3 1/2" pattern)
penetrated 6 sheets of drywall (3 walls)
#00 (9 pellets) @ 12ft (2 1/2" pattern)
6 penetrated 7 sheets of drywall (4 walls)
2 penetrated 8 sheets of drywall (4 walls)
1 dented the 9th sheet of drywall (5 walls)

"... tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs. ..."

So hmm....

#6 will scare someone.

#4, #1 may not stop the bad guy at all... but still penetrate 3 walls... 3 1/2" pattern at 1 room distance.

#00 WILL stop the bad guy but I'll penetrate 4 walls and perhaps damage wall 5... 2 1/2" pattern at 1 room distance.

Looking at my house, I live in a older style 38' x 50' single story home. Penetrating 3 walls from any point in any direction in my home, will end up asking the question of - will my exterior stucco walls stop the shot, or will my property line redwood fence have to do it... Therefore for me comparing 3 walls vs. 4 walls - is rather academic.

So let's see... assuming the bad guy, doesn't get a clue when my 120lb Great Dane jumps the bad guy at any door or window... I think I'll stay with #00 buck. Anyone foolish enough to get attacked by the dog, and keep coming wont be very impressed with #6...

-Michael
 
Slugs

Always been partial to slugs, and spend time with training to take a shot to stop an immediate threat to replicate BG has hostage and need to stop immediately.

I do head shots, hands with guns, knee caps - whatever the largest exposed target is of BG using Fridge, furniture, walls and whatever else.
Includes shooting through car windows , one way mirrors, glass interior doors...

Just me you understand , has to do with how raised.
 
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